Conjugal and Revisionist Perspective

  

APA FORMAT, 400 WORDS, 2 SCHOLARY SOURCES INCLUDING 1 BIBLICAL RESOURCE

1. What      do you believe are the motives of marriage revisionists? 
2. What      do you believe are the motives behind those who hold to a conjugal view of      marriage? 
3. Why      are those who hold to a conjugal view of marriage viewed in such a      negative light in society today? 
4. Based      on the Rybacki and Rybacki text, how can we begin to change public      perception when attempting to argue the conjugal viewpoint?

Conjugal and Revisionist Perspective

APA FORMAT, 400 WORDS, 2 SCHOLARY SOURCES INCLUDING 1 BIBLICAL RESOURCE

1. What do you believe are the motives of marriage revisionists? 

2. What do you believe are the motives behind those who hold to a conjugal view of marriage? 

3. Why are those who hold to a conjugal view of marriage viewed in such a negative light in society today? 

4. Based on the Rybacki and Rybacki text, how can we begin to change public perception when attempting to argue the conjugal viewpoint?

 

 

I
 have
 selected
 a
 very
 insightful
 and
 passionate
 article
 to
 share
 with
 you
 this
 month.
 The
 piece
 

was
  written
  by
  Peggy
  Noonan,
  who
  is
  one
  of
  my
  favorite
  social
  commentators
  and
  culture
 

watchers.
  She
  regularly
  “sees”
 what
 others
  fail
  to
 notice,
  and
  then
  conveys
 her
 observations
 

with
 the
 precision
 of
 a
 laser.
 

 

In
  a
  recent
  column,
 Peggy
 described
  the
 depravity
  and
 moral
 decay
  that
  is
  seeping
  from
  the
 

pores
 of
 our
 once-­‐great
 nation.
 Read
 it
 and
 weep
 over
 what
 is
 slipping
 away.
 

 

America’s
 Crisis
 of
 Character
 

 

The
 nation
 seems
 to
 be
 on
 the
 wrong
 track,
 and
 not
 just
 economically.
 

 

People
  in
  politics
  talk
  about
  the
  right
  track/wrong
  track
  numbers
  as
  an
  indicator
  of
 

public
 mood.
 This
 week
 Gallup
 had
 a
 poll
 showing
 only
 24%
 of
 Americans
 feel
 we’re
 on
 

the
  right
  track
  as
  a
  nation.
  That’s
  a
  historic
  low.
  Political
  professionals
  tend,
 

understandably,
 to
 think
 it’s
 all
 about
 the
 economy—unemployment,
 foreclosures,
 we’re
 

going
 in
 the
 wrong
 direction.
 I’ve
 long
 thought
 that
 public
 dissatisfaction
 is
 about
 more
 

than
  the
  economy,
  that
  it’s
  also
  about
  our
  culture,
  or
  rather
  the
  flat,
  brute,
  highly
 

sexualized
 thing
 we
 call
 our
 culture.
 

 

Now
  I’d
  go
  a
  step
  beyond
  that.
  I
  think
 more
  and
 more
  people
  are
 worried
  about
  the
 

American
 character—who
 we
 are
 and
 what
 kind
 of
 adults
 we
 are
 raising.
 

 

Every
 story
 that
 has
 broken
 through
 the
 past
 few
 weeks
 has
 been
 about
 who
 we
 are
 as
 a
 

people.
 And
 they
 are
 all
 disturbing.
 

 

A
 tourist
 is
 beaten
 in
 Baltimore.
 Young
 people
 surround
 him
 and
 laugh.
 He’s
 pummeled,
 

stripped
  and
  robbed.
  No
  one
  helps.
  They’re
  too
  busy
  taping
  it
  on
  their
  smartphones.
 

That’s
  how
  we
  heard
  their
  laughter.
  The
  video
  is
  on
  YouTube
  along
  with
  the
  latest
 

McDonald’s
 beat-­‐down
 and
 the
 latest
 store
 surveillance
 tapes
 of
 flash
 mobs.
 Groups
 of
 

teenagers
 swarm
 into
 stores,
 rob
 everything
 they
 can,
 and
 run
 out.
 The
 phenomenon
 is
 

on
 the
 rise
 across
 the
 country.
 Police
 now
 have
 a
 nickname
 for
 it:
 “flash
 robs.”
 

 

That’s
 just
 the
 young,
 you
 say.
 Juvenile
 delinquency
 is
 as
 old
 as
 history.
 

 

Let’s
 turn
 to
 adults.
 Also
 starring
 on
 YouTube
 this
 week
 was
 the
 sobbing
 woman.
 She’s
 

the
 poor
 traveler
 who
 began
 to
 cry
 great
 heaving
 sobs
 when
 a
 Transportation
 Security
 

Administration
 agent
 at
 the
 Madison,
 Wis.,
 airport
 either
 patted
 her
 down
 or
 felt
 her
 up,
 

depending
  on
  your
  viewpoint
  and
  experience.
  Jim
  Hoft
  of
  TheGatewayPundit.com
 

recorded
 it,
 and
 like
 all
 the
 rest
 of
 the
 videos
 it
 hurts
 to
 watch.
 When
 the
 TSA
 agent—an
 

adult,
 a
 middle
 aged
 woman—was
 done,
 she
  just
 walked
 away,
  leaving
 the
 passenger
 

alone
 and
 uncomforted,
 like
 a
 tourist
 in
 Baltimore.
 

 

There
 is
 the
 General
 Services
 Administration
 scandal.
 An
 agency
 devoted
 to
 efficiency
 is
 

outed
  as
  an
  agency
  of
  mindless
  bread-­‐and-­‐circuses
  indulgence.
  They
  had
  a
  four-­‐day
 

regional
 conference
 in
 Las
 Vegas,
 with
 clowns
 and
 mind
 readers.
 

 

The
  reason
  the
 story
  is
 news,
 and
 actually
 upsetting,
  is
 not
  that
 a
 government
 agency
 

wasted
 money.
 That
 is
 not
 news.
 The
 reason
 it’s
 news
 is
 that
 the
 people
 involved
 thought
 

what
  they
 were
 doing
 was
  funny,
 and
 appropriate.
  In
  the
 past,
 bureaucratic
 misuse
 of
 

taxpayer
 money
 was
 quiet.
 You
 needed
 investigators
 to
 find
  it,
  trace
  it,
 expose
  it.
 Now
 

it’s
 a
 big
 public
  joke.
 They
 held
 an
 awards
 show.
 They
 sang
 songs
 about
 the
 perks
 of
 a
 

government
 job:
 “Brand
 new
 computer
 and
 underground
 parking
 and
 a
 corner
 office.
 .
 .
 .
 

Love
 to
 the
 taxpayer.
 .
 .
 .
 I’ll
 never
 be
 under
 OIG
 investigation.”
 At
 the
 show,
 the
 singer
 

was
 made
 Commissioner
 for
 a
 Day.
 “The
 hotel
 would
 like
 to
 talk
 to
 you
 about
 paying
 for
 

the
 party
 that
 was
 held
 in
 the
 commissioner’s
 suite
  last
 night”
 the
 emcee
 said.
  It
 got
 a
 

big
 laugh.
 

 

On
 the
 “red
 carpet”
  leading
 into
 the
 event,
 GSA
 chief
 Jeffrey
 Neely
 said:
 “I
 am
 wearing
 

an
 Armani.”
 One
 worker
 said,
 “I
 have
 a
 talent
 for
 drinking
 Margaritas.
  .
  .
  .
  It
 all
 began
 

with
  the
  introduction
  of
  performance
  measures.”
  That
  got
  a
  big
  laugh,
  too.
  All
  the
 

workers
  looked
  affluent,
  satisfied.
  Only
  a
  generation
  ago,
  earnest,
  tidy
  government
 

bureaucrats
 were
 spoofed
 as
 drudges
 and
 drones.
 Not
 anymore.
 Now
 they’re
 way
 cool.
 

Immature,
 selfish
 and
 vain,
 but
 way
 cool.
 

 

Their
  leaders
  didn’t
  even
  pretend
  to
  have
  a
  sense
  of
  mission
  and
  responsibility.
  They
 

reminded
 me
 of
 the
 story
 a
 year
 ago
 of
 the
 dizzy
 captain
 of
 a
 U.S.
 Navy
 ship
 who
 made
 

off-­‐color
  videos
  and
  played
  them
  for
  his
  crew.
 He
 wasn’t
  interested
  in
  the
  burdens
  of
 

leadership—the
 need
 to
 be
 the
 adult,
 the
 uncool
 one,
 the
 one
 who
 maintains
 standards.
 

No
 one
 at
 GSA
 seemed
 interested
 in
 playing
 the
 part
 of
 the
 grown-­‐up,
 either.
 

 

Why?
 Why
 did
 they
 think
 this
 is
 OK?
 They
 seemed
 mildly
 decadent.
 Or
 proudly
 decadent.
 

In
 contrast
 to
 you,
 low,
 toiling
 taxpayer
 that
 you
 are,
 poor
 drudges
 and
 drones.
 

 

There
 is
 the
 Secret
 Service
 scandal.
 That
 one
 broke
 through
 too,
 and
 you
 know
 the
 facts:
 

overseas
 to
 guard
 the
 president,
 sent
 home
 for
 drinking,
 partying,
 picking
 up
 prostitutes.
 

What’s
 terrible
 about
 this
 story
 is
 that
 for
 anyone
 who’s
 ever
 seen
 the
 Secret
 Service
 up
 

close
 it’s
 impossible
 to
 believe.
 The
 Secret
 Service
 are
 the
 best
 of
 the
 best.
 That
 has
 been
 

their
  reputation
  because
  that
  has
  been
  their
  reality.
  They
  have
  always
  been
  tough,
 

disciplined
 and
 mature.
 They
 are
 men,
 and
 they
 have
 the
 most
 extraordinary
  job:
  take
 

the
 bullet.
 

Remember
 when
 Reagan
 was
  shot?
 That
 was
 Secret
  Service
 agent
 Tim
 McCarthy
 who
 

stood
  there
  like
 a
  stone
 wall,
 and
  took
 one
  right
  in
  the
 gut.
  Jerry
 Parr
 pushed
 Reagan
 

into
 the
 car,
 and
 Mr.
 Parr
 was
 one
 steely-­‐eyed
 agent.
 Reagan
 coughed
 up
 a
 little
 blood,
 

and
 Mr.
  Parr
  immediately
  saw
  its
  color
 was
  a
  little
  too
  dark.
  He
  barked
  the
  order
  to
 

change
 direction
 and
 get
 to
 the
 hospital,
 not
 the
 White
 House,
 and
 saved
 Reagan’s
 life.
 

From
 Robert
 Caro’s
 “Passage
 of
 Power,”
 on
 Secret
 Service
 agent
 Rufus
 Youngblood,
 Nov.
 

22,
 1963:
 “there
 was
 a
 sharp,
 cracking
 sound,”
 and
 Youngblood,
 “whirling
  in
 his
 seat,”
 

grabbed
 Vice
 President
 Lyndon
 Johnson
 and
 threw
 him
 to
 the
 floor
 of
 the
 car,
 “shielding
 

his
 body
 with
 his
 own.”
 

 

In
 any
 presidential
 party,
 the
 Secret
 Service
 guys
 are
 the
 ones
 who
 are
 mature,
 who
 you
 

can
 count
 on,
 who’ll
 keep
 their
 heads.
 They
 have
  judgment,
 they’re
 by
 the
 book
 unless
 

they
 have
 to
 rewrite
 it
 on
 a
 second’s
 notice.
 And
 they
 wore
 suits,
 like
 adults.
 

 

This
 week
 I
 saw
 a
 picture
 of
 agents
  in
 Colombia.
 They
 were
  in
 T-­‐shirts,
 wrinkled
 khakis
 

and
 sneakers.
 They
 looked
 like
 a
 bunch
 of
 mooks,
 like
 slobs,
 like
 children
 with
 muscles.
 

Special
  thanks
  to
  the
  person
 who
  invented
  casual
  Friday.
  Now
  it’s
  casual
  everyday
  in
 

America.
 
 

 

But
 when
 you
 lower
 standards
 people
 don’t
 decide
 to
 give
 you
 more,
 they
 give
 you
 less.
 

 

In
 New
 York
  the
 past
 week
 a
 big
  story
 has
 been
 about
 16
 public
  school
  teachers
 who
 

can’t
 be
 fired
 even
 though
 they’ve
 acted
 unprofessionally.
 What
 does
 “unprofessionally”
 

mean
  in
  New
  York?
  Sex
  with
  students,
  stalking
  students,
  and,
  in
  one
  case,
  standing
 

behind
 a
 kid,
 simulating
 sex,
 and
 saying,
 “I’ll
 show
 you
 what
 gay
 is.”
 

 

The
 kids
 in
 the
 flash
 mobs:
 These
 are
 their
 teachers.
 

 

 

Finally,
 as
 this
 column
 goes
 to
 press,
 the
 journalistic
 story
 of
 the
 week,
 the
 Los
 Angeles
 

Times’s
  decision
  to
  publish
  pictures
  of
 U.S.
  troops
  in
  Afghanistan
 who
  smilingly
  posed
 

with
 the
 bloody
 body
 parts
 of
 suicide
 bombers.
 The
 soldier
 who
 brought
 the
 pictures
 to
 

the
  Times
  told
  their
  veteran
  war
  correspondent,
  David
  Zucchino,
  that
  he
  was,
  in
 

Zucchino’s
 words,
 “very
 concerned
 about
 what
 he
 said
 was
 a
 breakdown
 in
 .
 .
 .
 discipline
 

and
 professionalism”
 among
 the
 troops.
 

In
  isolation,
  these
  stories
  may
  sound
  like
  the
  usual
  sins
  and
  scandals,
  but
  in
  the
 

aggregate
 they
 seem
 like
 something
 more
 disturbing,
 more
 laden
 with
 implication,
 don’t
 

they?
 And
 again,
 these
 are
 only
 from
 the
 past
 week.
 

 

The
 leveling
 or
 deterioration
 of
 public
 behavior
 has
 got
 to
 be
 worrying
 people
 who
 have
 

enough
 years
 on
 them
 to
 judge
 with
 some
 perspective.
 

 

Something
 seems
 to
 be
 going
 terribly
 wrong.
 

 

Maybe
 we
 have
 to
 stop
 and
 think
 about
 this.1
 

 

Peggy
 Noonan’s
 words
 bring
 tears
 to
 my
 eyes.
 I
 love
 this
 country
 more
 than
 I
 can
 describe,
 with
 

its
 Constitution
 and
 the
 Bill
 of
 Rights
 handed
 down
 to
 us
 from
 our
 Founding
 Fathers.
 There
 has
 

never
 been
 a
 nation
 to
 compare
 with
 the
 USA,
 but
 let
 us
 not
 be
 naïve
 or
 put
 our
 heads
 in
 the
 

sand
 –
 it
 is
 changing
 before
 our
 eyes.
 

 

My
  concern
  goes
 much
  deeper
  than
  the
  loss
  of
  freedom
  and
  cultural
  identity.
  The
  crisis
  of
 

character
 about
 which
 Peggy
 wrote
  is
  fueled
 by
  immorality
 and
  spiritual
 decay.
  It
  is
  the
  root
 

cause
  of
  violence,
  selfishness,
  greed,
  materialism,
  rape,
  infidelity,
  and
  all
  manner
  of
  evil.
  In
 

short,
 America
 is
 forgetting
 God
 and
 abandoning
 its
 fundamental
 beliefs.
 I
 ask
 you
 to
 join
 me
 in
 

refusing
 to
 accept
 this
 dangerous
 and
 escalating
 trend.
 

 

 

Peggy
 listed
 several
 recent
 examples
 of
 the
 American
 crisis
 of
 character,
 but
 other
 news
 stories
 

in
 the
 same
 month
 are
 even
 more
 shocking.
 

 

Consider
  a
  shameful
  telecast
  of
  the
  “Dr.
  Phil
  Show”
  that
  aired
  on
  April
  16th
  of
  this
  year.
  It
 

featured
  a
  mother
  named
  Annette
  Corriveau
  who
  made
  a
  case
  for
  killing
  her
  two
  disabled
 

children
 by
 lethal
  injection.
 The
 boys
 were
 diagnosed
 with
 Sanfilippo
 syndrome,
 which
 causes
 

them
 to
 lose
 motor
 function
 and
 to
 be
 institutionalized.
 

 

Corriveau
 only
 visits
 her
 children
 every
 two
 months,
 and
 medical
 workers
 could
 have
 given
 her
 

a
 better
 understanding
 of
 what
 their
 day-­‐by-­‐day
 experience
 was
 really
 like.
 She
 preferred
 only
 

that
 they
 be
 deprived
 of
 what
 life
 they
 had.
 I’m
 sure
 you
 are
 as
 sickened
 as
 I
 am
 by
 this
 example
 

of
 supreme
 parental
 selfishness.
 

 

So
 Americans,
  brace
  yourselves.
  Barring
  a
  spiritual
  renewal
  and
  the
 uniting
 of
  Christians
  and
 

families
 in
 both
 voice
 and
 action
 in
 the
 years
 to
 come
 will
 bring
 legalized
 euthanasia
 such
 as
 the
 

killing
 of
 Terry
 Schiavo,
 acceptance
 of
 physician-­‐assisted
 suicide,
 legalized
 same-­‐sex
 marriage,
 a
 

million
 more
  abortions
  every
  year
  (added
  to
  50
 million
  babies
  already
  dead),
  legalized
  drug
 

usage,
  more
  filth
  and
  perversion
  in
  the
  entertainment
  industry,
  continued
  epidemics
  of
 

pornography
 and
 violence,
 etc.
 Or,
 as
 Peggy
 Noonan
 phrases
 it,
 “America’s
 Crisis
 of
 Character.”
 

I
 ask
 you,
 is
 this
 an
 acceptable
 cultural
 legacy
 to
 deliver
 to
 the
 next
 generation
 of
 families?
 

 

No!
 We
 must
 stand
 apart
 from
 the
 culture
 in
 our
 everyday
 lives.
 We
 must
 take
 action
 now
 to
 

support
 and
 restore
 biblical
  family
 values
  in
 our
 homes,
 our
 churches,
 and
  in
 our
 community.
 

We
 must
  demand
  that
 when
  our
  elected
  leaders
  represent
  us,
  that
  they
  also
  represent
  our
 

values.
 When
 they
 do
 not,
 they
 must
 be
 replaced
 post-­‐haste.
 This
 is
 a
 new
 reality
 that
 we
 can
 

begin
 working
 towards,
 today.
 

 

 

 

I’m
  often
  asked
  how
  parents
  and
  influential
  adults
  can
  impact
  the
  character
  of
  our
  nation.
 

Here’s
 a
 place
 to
 start:
 It’s
 time
 to
 teach
 “old-­‐fashioned”
 principles
 of
 morality
 to
 our
 children
 .
 .
 

.
 not
 just
 because
 it’s
 the
 only
 safe
 approach,
 but
 because
 it’s
 right.
 

 

In
  the
  first
  chapters
 of
 my
 book,
 Dare
  to
 Discipline,
  I
  discussed
  the
  importance
 of
  the
  child’s
 

respect
 for
 his
 parents.
 I
 wrote,
 

 

His
  attitude
  toward
  their
  leadership
  is
  critical
  to
  his
  acceptance
  of
  their
  values
  and
 

philosophy,
  including
  their
  concept
  of
  premarital
  sexual
  behavior.
  Likewise,
  the
  most
 

fundamental
  element
  in
  teaching
 morality
  can
  be
  achieved
  through
  a
  healthy
  parent-­‐

child
  relationship
  during
  the
  early
  years.
  The
  obvious
  hope
  is
  that
  the
  adolescent
 will
 

respect
  and
  appreciate
  his
  parents
  enough
  to
  believe
 what
  they
  say
  and
  accept
 what
 

they
 recommend.
 

 

Unfortunately,
  however,
  this
  loyalty
  to
  parents
  is
  often
  an
  insufficient
  source
  of
 

motivation.
 It
  is
 my
 firm
 conviction
 that
 children
 should
 also
 be
 taught
 ultimate
 loyalty
 

to
 Jesus
 Christ.
 We
 should
 make
 it
 clear
 that
 the
 merciful
 God
 of
 love
 whom
 we
 serve
 is
 

also
  a
  God
  of
  justice.
  If
  we
  choose
  to
  defy
  His
  moral
  laws
  we
  will
  suffer
  certain
 

consequences.
  God’s
  spiritual
  imperatives
  are
  as
  inflexible
  as
  His
  physical
  laws.
  Those
 

who
 defy
 those
 physical
 laws
 will
 not
 long
 survive.
 Likewise,
 the
 willful
 violation
 of
 God’s
 

commandments
 is
 equally
 disastrous,
 for
 “the
 wages
 of
 sin
 is
 death.”
 An
 adolescent
 who
 

understands
  this
  truth
  is
  more
  likely
  to
  live
  a
  moral
  life
  in
  the
  midst
  of
  an
  immoral
 

society.”2
 

 

So,
 we
 must
 both
 teach
 the
 truth
 of
 Christ
 and
 provide
 living
 examples
 of
 morality,
 faith,
 

and
  the
 character
 we
 wish
  to
 see
  in
  the
 next
 generation.
 Let
 us
 not
  travel
  the
 path
 of
 

destruction
 of
 the
 past.
 This
 is
 the
 way
 Jehovah
 described
 wickedness
 of
 ancient
 Israel
 in
 

the
 words
 of
 the
 prophet
 Isaiah.
 

 

“Your
 New
 Moon
 festivals
 and
 your
 appointed
 feasts
 my
 soul
 hates.
 They
 have
 become
 a
 

burden
 to
 me;
 I
 am
 weary
 of
 bearing
 them.
 When
 you
 spread
 out
 your
 hands
 in
 prayer,
 I
 

will
 hide
 my
 eyes
 from
 you;
 even
 if
 you
 offer
 many
 prayers,
 I
 will
 not
 listen.
 Your
 hands
 

are
 full
 of
 blood;
 wash
 and
 make
 yourselves
 clean.
 Take
 your
 evil
 deeds
 out
 of
 my
 sight!
 

Stop
 doing
 wrong,
 learn
 to
 do
 right!
 Seek
 justice,
 encourage
 the
 oppressed.
 Defend
 the
 

cause
 of
 the
 fatherless,
 plead
 the
 case
 of
 the
 widow.”
 Isaiah
 1:13b-­‐17
 

 

Lord,
 bless
 this
 great
 nation
 and
 forgive
 us
 for
 our
 grievous
 sins
 and
 rebellious
 spirit.
 Return
 to
 

us
 the
 joy
 of
 our
 salvation
 and
 make
 us
 again
 a
 people
 of
 character.
 That
  is
 the
 prayer
 of
 our
 

hearts.
 

 

Family
  Talk
  will
  not
  only
  continue
  to
  work
  for
  the
  preservation
  of
  the
  family,
  but
  for
  the
 

restoration
 of
 righteousness
  in
 the
 culture.
 We
 are
 here
 to
 support
 you
  in
 the
 noble
 cause
 of
 

building
  and
  maintaining
  God-­‐honoring
  families.
  Call
  us.
  Email
  us.
  Join
  us
  on
  the
  social
 

networks.
 Use
 the
 many
 free
 resources
 provided
 each
 month
 at
 drjamesdobson.org.
 Visit
 us
 in
 

our
 offices.
 We
 want
 to
 hear
 from
 you!
 

 

Finally,
 thank
 you,
 dear
 friends,
 for
 helping
 to
 keep
 this
 ministry
 on
 the
 air.
 Summer
 is
 here
 and
 

that
 means
 lean
 times
 will
 be
 upon
 us
 for
 the
 next
 three
 months.
 Your
 support
 will
 be
 greatly
 

appreciated.
 

 

Sincerely,
 

 
James
 C.
 Dobson,
 Ph.D.
 

President
 and
 Founder
 
 

 

EndNote:
 

1. Peggy
 Noonan
 article
 reprinted
 with
 the
 express
 permission
 of
 the
 author.
 

2. Dare
 to
 Discipline
 copyright
 info.
 Chapter
 10,
 pg
 228
 

 

Finding Strength through Adversity

Someone once said if you remove the rocks

from a book, it would lose its song. Well, that holds true

for you and me as well. Dr. James Dobson for Family Talk Authors

Scott Walker tells of the time he was asked to help some friends dig through the ashes of their house after a fire. When they arrived all at withstanding was

a portion of the outer bricked wall where the piano once stood, lay only a pile of

ashes and twisted wire. And that survived

the blaze. But whilst sifting

through the debris, Walker came across a

tiny China Bluebird. He wiped away the soot to find that the colors

were still bright. A few hairline cracks have formed in the glaze, but beyond that, it

remained intact. Walker writes, as

I gaze down at the bird small beak

and two black eyes, I wanted if only

this little Bluebird could talk What a

story it would tell. A story of the heated

the night of terror, of survival against

great odds. And then the

crucial question, hip, Why did this China

Bluebird survived? It had survived the fire because they’d

been tested fine. And so it is with human

beings who have been refined in life’s

raging firms. They are tougher, harder, and more resilient

than those who have never faced

difficulty and loss. That understanding may help us cope the next time the heat is turned up on our tranquil little world. Dr. James Dobson

profoundly talk.

Striving for a Goal

Some years ago sports enthusiasts around

the world had their eyes on a young pole vaulter from Texas named Billy Olsen at

the age of nineteen he had already set the world indoor record it was predicted

that he would easily bring home the gold medal in the one nine hundred eighty

Olympics in one nine hundred seventy nine Olsen suffered an injury at the trials and

he didn’t even make the team down but not defeated he began looking instead

in one thousand nine hundred four but a few months later he took a bad fall

of knee broke his wrist Dr said he would probably never vault again still

Billy didn’t give up in one hundred eighty four he was jumping high but not well

enough to make the team so once again he set his sights on the next time around in

one thousand nine hundred six he broke the world record four times one thousand

nine hundred eighty eight was surely going to be really old since year this time

he qualified but to everyone’s surprise he didn’t jump well he never won a medal

Billy may have never reached his goal but in my mind he’ll always be a winner

simply because he had the guts and the heart to stay with it no matter

how many obstacles block his path you see striving for

a goal is a worthy end in itself by pursuing a dream way push ourselves

to do better and to be better and even if we never realize that dream we

have the satisfaction of knowing that we gave it our best shot and that beats

sitting on the sidelines by a country mile there’s more family talk with

Dr James Dobson at my Family Talk dot com.

Considering Ethics and the Faith Factor – Dr. Eric Scalise

So I want to start off by asking two

questions in the first question is this faith really make a difference when it

comes to treating and resolving complex psychological problems I think I know

where most of you would stand on that but it’s an important question for

us to ask because the secular academic and professional world doesn’t always ask that

question and the second question is if so if A does make a difference what’s

the proper role in function for an overtly Judeo Christian

counseling ethic within a highly regulated profession

these are important things for us to consider now although

spirituality continues to evolve and is sometimes referred to

as the the next major force in mental health counseling the research

literature as we’ve all we already heard from Dr Worthington basically

affirms that it has a profound and dynamic effect on counseling outcomes

in mental health counseling and so spirituality in faith do

play an important role and the research also affirms and support

this why is that because belief and trust in a compassionate and

caring God for people of faith makes a difference when

they need to talk with someone and work through life’s problems why because

it provides purpose it provides meaning expression in terms of tragedy and

crisis so we’re going to spend some time really

in my portion talking about values and spiritual competencies and

why it makes a difference so I want to ask another question why is it

then if faith is important if spirituality is an issue why in today’s multicultural

diverse post modern society do some practitioners and counselor

educators still restful with the issue or avoid or even disparage this

potential client strength I think it’s because in some ways were

some maybe uncomfortable with the top. OPIC historically it’s been a taboo

issue to really address religion and faith issues with clients and so

it’s never really been provided or addressed I believe in Counselor education

and training programs why because at its core a person’s spiritual orientation

often Reeve represents their defining value system from which cognition

affix behavior in relationships all flow out of and so what are the

differences between values ethics and regulations well as value is a walk

raging preference for behavior and outcomes so values have to do with our

belief our core beliefs in life and ethics can be understood as the same

values in action taking that value system which is in turn and actually

putting it into a behavioral stance values in action that’s what ethics

really isn’t and then regulatory or statutory law is further distinguished

as a set of codified ethics deemed so important that there are civil and

criminal penalties which bene scribed to them if these rules are ever broken and

so it’s important for us to address these fundamental principles

that are embodied in every mental health code and one of the most predominant

principle is one that many of you have probably already

learned already been taught and that’s first do no harm first

do no harm it’s the absence of malfeasance Well we’ll see why this

is relevant for us relevant for us as people of faith it’s

because if do no harm is important and that’s taught in every

counsellor education program for people preparing for mental health

professions then it’s critical for our academic institutions in our training

programs to begin to understand that spirituality and

faith based outcomes is important. To train future therapists now

from a biblical perspective I don’t just want to see it

is the first do no harm or the absence of malfeasance because I

believe as in Galatians six ten says it says While we have the opportunity let us

do good and so it’s really more from of the presence of beneficence that we

approach this is people of faith and faith based counsellors clinicians and

caregivers I believe that we are uniquely positioned to demonstrate an affirmation

of life the up holding of human dignity the competent service of professionals

in the cultivation of God’s love and respect toward other people I believe

that God has given us the tools wherein we can be effective as

mental health providers so but the reality is an increasing diverse

society one that includes multiple in a time seemingly in congruity

value systems counsellors today must learn how to integrate and

balance both their biblical world view and their values with the culturally relevant

values that might be out there and still it hearing to the basic tenets of

ethical practice we all have to do that and so what I’m talking about

here are issues of competence and so let’s talk about competence for

a minute and it’s it is a matter of competence these are one of the this is

one of the three primary things that we’re all taught in our basic ethics class

both consent confidentiality and competence are important things so

what does complement competence mean what are some of the markers of this

important ethical principle and why is it relevant to us as people

of faith first this signifies integrity we as biblical as

faith based counsellors must enter into that arena with

a certain element of integrity and one god a call is called us to do

we’re aware of our limitations that’s competence we make truthful and. Realistic statements regarding the

identity education training experience and credentials that we have and

so it’s important for us to represent ourselves honestly and

accurately as Ambassador this is a Christ these are important if we’re to

have a seat at the table and I remember my time serving on

the Virginia Board of counseling I served on the board for a number of years

along with Dr Tim Clinton and we would often have to sit in

disciplinary hearing cases because people had crossed over some of

those ethical boundaries and it was always a very sobering time and

I actually in my time on the board had to recuse myself from five different

disciplinary hearings because I knew the professional who was

called into question sadly all five of them were people of faith and

one even graduated from university that I worked with and

so we have to make truthful and realistic statements we have to avoid

dishonest ignorant or exaggerated claims and that’s why it’s important that as Dr

Worthington pointed out that as people of faith we can’t just say we believe this

because the Bible says so we have to. Integrate vigorous research so

that we have something to stand on because I believe as many of you

probably do that the research supports what we already know in our hearts

to be the truth and competence also means that we have accountability

we build that into our practice that we have a commitment to keep pace

with the latest knowledge and training and counseling issues and resources and

developments up there and competence also has to do with making needed in

appropriate referrals and referring to other professionals who by the way also

have a certain level of competence to themselves we seek out supervision

an input when it’s needed or a pro. Brid and we’re aware of personal burnout

when we have personal problems so it’s important if we’re going to have a seat at

the table for you and I to maintain and be competent clinicians in every

respect now ethics is not and should not be viewed merely as a single

graduate course in a master’s level or doctoral level training program and

I know that for many ethics is sometimes devolved into one course but

I believe it’s a much broader and more comprehensive orientation to every

facet of what you and I do in our practice in ministry and while religious

beliefs must certainly be respected in any client seeking mental health treatment

it would appear reasonable to include religious sensitivity and awareness

training to cover this domain and I say this to my secular colleagues

out there because often religious sensitivity in awareness training is not

really or not sufficiently addressed and it needs to be and we’ll talk a little bit

about what’s going on there right now but by and large within the United States we

still remain in the vote overtly spiritual nation as well as one that tends to lean

toward a Judeo Christian heritage and the two thousand and

nine Harris poll of twenty three hundred participants eighteen years and

older found that eighty two percent of all adult Americans still believe in God and

this closely mirrors the same number reported from

earlier polls in two thousand and five and two thousand and seven Likewise

in a Pew Forum in two thousand and seven called the US religious

landscape survey over thirty five thousand adults showed

that seventy eight percent of them in this country report belonging to

various forms of the Christian faith and so the issue is not only should religious. And spiritual sensitivity

training be offered to. Masters and doctoral level students

who are preparing for the field but I believe that these kinds of surveys

also indicate that definitely people should receive training in Judeo

Christian cultural ethics why because the vast majority of the national

population still identifies with this and if someone has a client who’s going to

come in to their practice then they have to be aware and be prepared to

address the person’s faith issues and in most cases that will be

a good day in Judeo Christian heritage that they’re looking at so

there is a national upward trend in clients who are seeking to

address spiritual issues and concerns in receiving mental health

services here’s the reality though outside of past oral counsellors and

chaplains who are trained in C.P.E. clinical past oral education very few

clinicians have actually received formal training to work effectively with

spiritually tuned and motivated clients so it’s not happening but it is critical

to understand the cultural nuances and respect a client spiritual autonomy but

by working within the parameters of their theological worldview what

happens more often than not is other value systems other ethics

are brought in you know through. The practitioners belief

system value system and even the the discipline across

whether it’s psychology counseling social work marriage and family substance

abuse work these things do bring and bear impact however in a review of the use

of spiritual interventions among Christian counsellors it was found that not only

that the most commonly identified. Factor was the therapist’s religious

beliefs attitudes and behaviors but when there was a Can grew and that existed

between where the therapist was and where the client was treatment outcomes

in the treatment progress was enhanced In other words when a client was connected to

a therapist that there was some can grow it’s between their religious and spiritual

value systems This tended to enhance treatment outcomes that’s why it’s

important yes we know at some level because we are people of faith that is

true but we also need to be encouraged and understand that the research actually

demonstrates and supports this outcome and while many mental health practitioners

acknowledge the importance of spiritual values to their clients the majority

of clinicians inadequate inadequately assess the domain and so for some

reason again clinicians out there don’t always look at spirituality in making

their initial intakes in assessments but this is important the counsel for

the credit Taishan of counseling and related educate cation programs K. crap some of you may watching this me

teaching cake rep accredited programs or may have come out of one make a correct

has recognized the deficiency that exists in most graduate academic institutions

today regarding spiritual competency and yet there remains a lack of effective

training protocols why because it’s an on going general discomfort among council

trainees and faculty members in addressing any even integrating spirituality with the

curriculum and programs and even though K. crip has mandated in

their two thousand and nine standards the need

to address spirituality in the core curriculum of counselor

education programs at present neither K. crip nor any other crediting body

specifically addresses spiritually oriented counseling certificate or

graduate programs they have. Said It’s important they’ve mandated that

it’s important and yet there is not yet been adequate follow through on this issue

one study of evangelical Christian clients in need of psychiatric help found that

eighty three percent of respondents believe that therapists did not

understand their beliefs and values and it resulted in a significant hesitation

to fully engage into treatment and so again if you have a population

where spirituality and faith are important dynamics and they

don’t believe that the person that they’re sitting in front of pouring their heart

out to can engage with them at that level then you’re not going to get

the movement that’s needed to resolve some serious issues so here we

go in recent years there’s been a push for counselling practitioners across

disciplines and all levels to develop what are now called spiritual competencies in

the assessment and treatment of mental and emotional disorders for example the joint

commission on the credit de Sion of health care organizations often known as

Jayco it’s the credit ing body for most hospitals in

the United States it now recommends Jayco now recommends that a spiritual

cess Mint be done on every patient who comes into the hospital

spiritual competencies within the American Counseling Association

their division a survey which stands for the Association for spiritual ethical and

religious values and counseling this division in two thousand

and seven at the AC a conference in Detroit Michigan hosted a panel

discussion of specially selected. Educators and clinicians who

were to intentionally identified as being nationally recognized for their expertise in teaching and research

in this whole area of spirituality and counseling they developed a set of

competencies and I just want to share a few of these with you because I want to

encourage you that it’s not necessarily. That we have to go out and developing

create these competencies the very institutions that regulate and to help

define our Christian code I mean our ethics code of ethics actually supports

much of what we advocate and believe in already here listen to some of these

I’m not going to give you all of them they are in your Power Point But let me just

read a few competency number two out of a service panel the professional counselor

recognizes that the client’s beliefs or absence of beliefs about spirituality or

religion are central to his or her worldview and can influence psycho

social functioning how many of us believe in that I do competency number five

the professional counselor can identify the limits of his or her understanding

of the client spiritual and or religious perspectives and

as acquainted with religious and spiritual resources including leaders

who can be avenues for consultation to whom the counselor can refer competency

number six the professional counselor can identify limits of his or her

understanding with clients religious or spiritual expression and demonstrate

appropriate referral skills and generate potential referral

sources competency number seven the professional counsellor response

of the client communications about spirituality and or

religion with acceptance and sensitivity sometimes

we don’t see this for people who come from a Judeo Christian

point of view within the counseling framework competency number eight the

professional counselor uses spiritual and or religious concepts that are consistent

with the client’s spiritual and or religious perspectives and

acceptable to the client competency Number nine the professional

counselor can recognize spiritual and or religious themes and client communication

and is able to address these with the client when they’re therapeutically

relevant This almost sounds like something that people of faith

may have crafted as saying these are. The competencies that we want to train and

yet they come out of the survey K.C.’s division competency number twelve the

professional counsellor sets goals with the client that are consistent

with the client’s spiritual and or religious perspectives competency number

thirteen the professional counselor is able to a modified therapeutic techniques

to include a client spiritual and religious perspectives and be utilized

spiritual and or religious practices as techniques when appropriate and

acceptable to a client’s viewpoint these are amazing statements that you and

I as Christian advocates for faith based counseling

need to begin to send the message and encourage practitioners both secular and

faith based to it here by something. That the profession recognizes in A.C.S.

actual code of ethics a few things they say the primary

sponsibility is to respect the dignity and promote the welfare of clients

personal values are important councillors are aware of their own

values attitudes and beliefs and behaviors avoid imposing values that

are inconsistent with counseling goals but they also respect the diversity of clients

trainees and research participants again there is the need for

the counseling profession to recognize and respect people from a Judeo Christian

orientation in the counseling process. There are other competencies in

codes that are there in your notes. In A.P.A. the American Psychological

Association principle respect for people’s rights and dignity it talks

about the importance of client self-determination you’ve heard that

term before respect cultural and religious values that’s an A.P.A. code you can read it there in your notes

also about boundaries of competence. Also in the American Association

of Marriage and Family Therapist code of ethics a M.F.T. and so we see again and again in these

established recognized secular but professional counseling oriented

organization and entities that they have a stablished

spiritual competencies and said this is important that

counselors need to be trained need to be oriented need to be competent

in these areas they’re not necessarily talking to clinicians of faith but

clinicians and so you and I have something that we can stand on

along with the Word of God to advocate that the profession it hears to what it’s

already identified as being of value and importance so

what are some concluding thoughts here. Counseling by its very

nature is value laden. It’s amazing to me that how often people

make the argument that counseling and counselors are value neutral

that’s not true we all bring who we are into that process both client and

counselor and we must recognize that that is so

now we do have an X. an ethical responsibility to treat

clients within their relevant culture and values system but

it also works the other way around. We need to make appropriate referrals

when there’s a lack of competence based on education training

experience expertise. But we’re expected to utilize appropriate

empathy skills and in doing so be able to understand the client’s perspective

except differences between ourselves and our clients beliefs and values and

also facilitate the personal development of client spirituality and

growth regardless of the counsellors personal views so part of it is to educate

the general population that if you’re seeking mental health care and

I understand sometimes when you’re. Working with third party payers or

your insurance company or you might be in the military and you

have to use certain providers we need to educate the population out there that they

have certain rights to expect that the one sitting down across from them in that

room and that moment of them pouring out their heart has an ethical

responsibility to be respectful and utilize in a corporate in

integrate their value system into the counseling process one of

the most time honored cornerstone ethical principles that pertains to the

mental health field is a client’s right to self-determination the freedom

to participate in the choice and the direction of treatment in

a manner that’s culturally relevant. So what happens if a client’s

value system is different than the counsellors met

Staver talked about gender identity issues what happens when

the secular world out there the media. Maybe even secular institutions and

crediting bodies and training bodies advocate for

a certain viewpoint in this area and yet a client comes in and says my faith and

values are important to me they matter. Which set of values should take precedence

I would argue based on the language. That wasn’t developed by faith

communities but by these very entities I would argue that the client’s right to

self-determination ought to prevail and that the professional world needs to

respect and consistently advocate for a client’s right to self-determination

to gauge treatment environments with respect to their cultural diversity I believe the A.C.C. is well positioned

to offer some of that education and training and connection we need

to continue to develop and research faith in faith based

treatment models we need to understand that spirituality while it’s intensely

personal offers the believer an anchor for the soul it’s a hopeful contagion

effect that can motivate a client and enhance the change process and ways that are transformational why because

it incorporates the whole person so in closing let me say this

as clinicians as educators. As people of faith we need to be

informed we need to be competent and we need to be proactive regarding

our advocacy of a client’s faith based values and the right to

self-determination God bless you.

Considering Ethics and the Faith Factor – Dr. Everett Worthington

I have been asked to do a chapter on

the contribution of Christianity to people’s well being and so I’ve had

the privilege of for the last week or so reviewing the literature and

I can tell you with very little has to say that Christianity

contributes to wellbeing in terms of people’s physical health

mental health relationship and spirituality tonight I’m not

going to go into that basic research I’m really interested

tonight in talking with you about. Christian counseling religious

counseling more generally and most of the research that’s been done on that

has been done on Christian counseling so the things that I say really apply

across the board so this is my hope for today I actually would like to start

by talking about something that will seem totally irrelevant and that was

I had a nice vacation this summer. I went my wife and I went and spent ten

days in the Rocky Mountain National Park and had just some wonderful hikes

out in the Rockies it was beautiful one particular one the last one that we

did was hike to a place called Black Lake. This began with a hike for

about two thirds or three fourths of a mile up

to a beautiful waterfall and then we hiked on about a mile one point

two to a lake that was a beautiful view nice lake that we could walk around and

then we began the trudge up the mountain winding through these

dead trees that were day on and and through beautiful waterfalls and

it was just a wonderful hike and. Well we arrived at Blackall Lake. And then we went beyond black lake and

we looked and the mountain actually at that point went up and that’s when RI

said I think we’ve had enough and we’re ready to go back mail now I know that

that doesn’t make any sense right now but by the end of talking with you I hope that

I can make that make just a little sense. So I have an agenda for tonight and and that he owes that to I want to

look at how people incorporate their Christian beliefs into

Christian counseling and maintain an evidence based practice so they’re not just out there willy

nilly putting in what they think is going to work but in fact there’s

evidence that supports what they do. So this is going to really involve me

doing three things one I’m going to tell you about a type of research

that I participated in with some colleagues of mine

Joshua hook and Donnie Davis and Josh was at university in North Texas

stony a set Georgia State University and. We did a mega analysis of research on

religious and spiritual counseling. After I give you kind of

the highlights of that Metta analysis I’m going to talk

about what does this mean for clinicians what you know what do we do how

do we put some of this into practice and I’m going to give a very little bit on

what does this mean for researchers. So this is my mission should I

decide to accept it which I do so. This this Oldmeadow analysis that we

did on religious and spiritual can. It was published in The Journal of

Clinical Psychology last year and. So what a Mehta analysis is for folks if you don’t know what

a med analysis C.S. yet compare or

all of the research in an area by trying to place that research on a common. Metric a common way of

measuring effectiveness and so we looked at fifty one different

samples from forty six studies that involved over

three thousand two hundred clients and we tried to see if we

could crunch everything together what is the effectiveness of

Christian counseling or religiously oriented counseling that S.S. and most

of the research has been on Christian. Approaches. So what did we do we compared. The Christian counseling with

three things one we looked at the studies that compared Christian

counseling against some kind of control condition usually just testing people

repeatedly until they fall unconscious. Is this what psychologists of course

like to do second comparison was between Christian counseling and

some alternative treatment for that problem and the third is to compare. Christian counseling with what we

called dismantling design which means that we’re comparing the particular

type of Christian counseling with the secular version of that where

the only difference between the two is the incorporation of Christian concepts

and ideas so that’s called and this. Mantling of the design. Now what this research does is it

translates the effectiveness into a a number which is call

which is denoted by D. and D. tells the number of standard

deviations better than whatever you’re comparing it against that Christian

counseling might be you know better than. So the number standard deviations

just give you a sense of this psychotherapy if you just take

people through psychotherapy and you compare that with a notary just a test

retest retest control group you get a D. of about point eight

standard deviations so that should give you a framework of what

I mean when I give you a number about D.. So what we found in this med

analysis was that religiously and spiritually accommodated treatments

treatments that were tailored to Christians had better outcomes. On against alternative secular

treatments to the tune of a D. of about point two six about

a quarter of a standard deviation Now this remember already accounts these

alternative treatments already have a the of about point eight when

compared against pretty much just retesting So this says that the Christian

treatments are improving above and beyond what the secular treatments

do on psychological outcomes. When you compare the treatments against. Our will on spiritual outcomes the DEA for

that comparison. Between the Christian treatments and

alternatives is point four one standard deviations so

quite a lot better in spiritual. Outcomes. Now. And. You know we have alternatives

that they’re compared against these alternatives you know we. Specify what kind of alternatives but

the real tough question is is a Christian treatment any

better than a treatment that is exactly the same except for

being not being Christian. When we compare those we found that

the mental health outcomes exactly the same that is you have

Christian client come to you and if you try a secular approach or

a Christian accommodative approach you get essential a no difference in

terms of mental health outcomes but you do get a an increase in the spiritual outcomes of about point three

three standard deviations So basically you know what we found in

a number of treatments about ten different independent studies we found that if you

can tailor your approach to Christians. You’re going to be just as effective as

a secular treatment you can look at any insurance company in the eye and say this

is just as effective as any other secular treatment but it also produces benefits

spiritually for the clients and usually they want that spiritually

oriented Christian treatment so this is a good argument from

the research that gives you ammunition to feel confident that you

can do a Christian a pro. And be successful with it. Now there are some weaknesses

in this research research always has weaknesses and of course psychologists

love to find those weaknesses so let me tell you about some of

the weaknesses in this research one. It’s really difficult to craft a kind

of generically Christian treatment probably see why that would be

the case right suppose that I have a Pentecostal theology and

I decide that the way to help people is to pray in tongues with them and

cast out demons. That might be something that a Pentecostal

client really thrives on but your average mainline Christian is

probably not going to thrive on that and your evangelical Christian is probably

going to get a little nervous about that so so we want to tailor the treatment to the theology the specific

theology of the client. Now in these studies they were

turned into Christian treatments but the amount of modification to make

them Christian was highly variable and usually was not even specified so a Christian treatment in

the research might have been that the therapist prayed for the client

when the client wasn’t there and they say this was a Christian treatment

you know I do psychoanalytic treatment and you know we don’t really talk much about

values religious values unless it comes up in the therapy but I prayed for

him so this is a Christian treatment where you can see yes that’s a Christian

treatment but that is way different. From someone who integrates their

Christianity into every hour of counseling and tries to work with the client very

closely on the religious aspects. A third of the weaknesses

in this research is that most of the research has been done

with illogically conservative clients with people who are evangelical Christians

or and here too conservative theology so if if our theology is conservative then

great we know a lot about what happens but if our theology is say Roman Catholic or more toward the liberal end of the

spectrum or even mainline Christianity we really don’t know so

much about those clients and that therapies that would be good for

them a fourth weakness is that most of the research that’s been done

has been cognitive behavioral therapy that has been adapted to Christian model

that’s good we really know the cognitive behavioral treatments that are adapted

to Christians work very well but we don’t know so

much about other types of therapy about emotionally focus couple therapy

about psychoanalytically and inform therapies things like that so

there are some weaknesses that need to be taken care of and need to be

considered So what does this mean for you if you are a clinician or

the first thing it means is know your client you know what kind of religious

approach does the person have. Everyone should be ethically

evaluating their clients by at least two questions at a level

a very basic level and that is you know How religious are you. And do you think that religion makes

a difference in your problem and do you want it incorporated

in your treatment but you know we need to look more closely

at the at the fundamentals of what people believe if we want

to tailor this approach so that we can’t help that each

client in the best a way. You know being too religious

can be just as devastating for a client as being not religious and

off it all depends on what the person wants and what the person

expects to happen in therapy and we want to walk with them

where they want to go. A second recommendation for clinicians. Is that we often assume that. Accommodation is better that is the more Christian I can make

this treatment the better it is. But that has have been investigated and we don’t know some people may get turned

off if you try to make a treatment more Christian than they

think is appropriate so we need to try to discover how

much accommodation what kind of accommodation is the best for

working with particular. Clients. The third recommendation is if you have

mainline Protestant or Roman Catholic. Or Christian or other Christian clients. We can’t necessarily know that

cognitive behavioral approaches are necessarily as effective for

them as with more theologically conservative clients because that’s

where the evidence has supported. The cognitive behavioral

Christian approach. So there’s a big take home point here and I know that you are very well aware

of what that take on point is know your client and

if you know your client and match to your client you can be pretty

confident that a Christian oriented approach is going to at least have

as good mental health outcome and probably better spiritual outcomes for

those matched clients. And what about research in do I have any. Recommendations to researchers I think

there are some really fascinating questions if you’re really interested

in research you know there’s a wide open highway how much discrepancy can clients tolerate with

their theology you know how much should they be right together

you’d be right together with them. You know can we. Make a kind of a generic

intervention this is kind of the Holy Grail that we

want to get is some Christian intervention that could work with say

ninety five percent of our clients but it’s difficult because we have

to tailor to the individual but are there some interventions that are just

so good they’re going to work with almost everybody can you find those

if you’re a researcher what works and what doesn’t work so. Designing an intervention whether you’re

a clinician designing an intervention for your client or whether you’re a researcher

designing an intervention to try to help a lot of different clients is

a lot like hiking a Melton trail. You know the idea of hiking a mountain

trail is that a trail is built that goes to Alberta

falls to the the lake and on up to black like it gets people to

a destination that they want to and yet it allows them to have an experience

that they are comfortable with on the way up it uses the same basic

trail but it allows people to. Wander off trail to run ahead

to slow down to sit and rest also if we are their

guide on this trail as a therapist then you know how

do we best guide this person do we walk ahead of them do they

want us really to take charge and lead them up the mountain or

would they rather have the initiative and lead themselves up the mountain and

have us there just for support and security or should we walk side by

side how much should we talk with them how much should we let them enjoy the

experience or benefit by the experience so we can see that whether

we are a clinician or researcher we want to tailor

the experience to the. To the client and

to each individual client but try to find the best evidence base for

the interventions that we can. So I’m going to conclude and

the way that I’m. Conclude is just to emphasize

you know what I have said and that is Christian counseling

works that’s the good news. But there are a few little

minor problems that remain for example we don’t know what Christian

counseling really is how much accommodation is needed what kind

of accommodations are needed for whom is this kind of accommodation

needed we need to be very specific about that clinically and

in research and so let me end with just a challenge

to you and this challenge is are you going to be the person who designs that trail to the top of the mountain

that everybody can walk on and benefit by that has just

the right tact timing and dosage of intervention that almost

everybody who comes to you can benefit by are you going to be the one who increase

or who signs that Christian treatment.

Considering Ethics and the Faith Factor – George Ohlschlager, Esq.

You know I’d like to set first of all

a larger context to our discussion. I’d like to give you. The concerns that we have about

the issues we’re presenting tonight this past March in a paper named in defense of

religious freedom the Evan Jellicoe and Catholics together organization a major

national and international group. Authority the authority really declared

that Christians are quote the largest single group in the world being denied

human rights on the basis of their faith. Furthermore the E.C. T. held that at the beginning of our common

work on behalf of the gospel which began in one thousand nine hundred four just

eighteen years ago it did not seem likely that religious freedom would be one of

our primary concerns we are now concerned indeed deeply concerned that religious

freedom is under renewed assault around the world while the threats to freedom

of faith religious practice and religious participation in public

affairs in Islamised in communist states are widely recognized grave threats to

religious freedom have also emerged in the developed democracies in

the West certain religious believes are now regarded as bigoted pastors are

under threat both cultural and legal for preaching biblical truths Christian

social service and charitable agencies are forced to cease cooperation with

the state because they will not bend their work to what Pope Benedict the sixteenth

has called the dictatorship of relativism. It is no exaggeration to see in these

developments a movement to drive religious belief and especially

Orthodox Christian religious and moral convictions out of public. I. Remember last February. Newsweek magazine had

a cover issue stating the global war on Christian by I and her lead where in she reported that

in Africa Asia in the Middle East terrorist attacks on Christians

often involving abuse torture even mass murder increased

three hundred nine percent in just seven years from two thousand and

three to twenty ten. Two thousand and twelve may well

become known as the most fateful year in the over four hundred year history

of religious liberty in the new world religious liberty is a bedrock First

Amendment principle of American freedom. And has recently been under assault

from many directions in a most troubling fashion serious questions

now exist whether or not professional clinicians counselors and psychologists even pastors and

Pastoral Counselors in the church can maintain the historic right

tool Wortley bring God into and use of the revelation the Bible in our

counseling in our caregiving work. I mean shine a couple of big bright

lights in all this darkness however. Two cases give us real hope one is

the overturning the reversal of the Julie award case when it was appealed

in federal appellate court. And secondly earlier this year

the United States Supreme Court ruled in Hosanna Tabor versus Ito C. they ruled a nine zero unanimous vote

upholding the fundamental right of religious organizations to hire and fire employees on the basis

of their religious beliefs. The high court respected

what the equal opportunity. Employment Commission did not and

inviolate rule of judicial policy that all courts and government agencies have

always honored in America and that all nine justices affirmed unanimously in

making a critically important legal and policy point this long standing

rule holds that courts and all branches of government have no

business really they have no ability no competence to interfere with and

muck around in the religious beliefs religious practices personnel

decisions and policies of churches and religious organizations throughout our

history the church has been hands on as far as the court is concerned if the

court had ruled in favor of the E.E.O.C. technical administrative control of

the American church would have instantly transferred from the church to

the state with horrifying consequences. Just days after the Supreme Court ruling

in Hosanna Tabor however which some have called the most important religious

freedom case in over forty years Health and Human Services Chief Kathleen Sebelius

allowed a rule to take effect that will effectively kill religious

liberty in all American health care. Transactions she upheld a God

denying rule that will require all religious employees to

deliver abortion related and contraception services to

all employees and service or as part of the new Obama health care law

coming on stream across the country. Many religious leaders have been

appalled by the deceptive and coercive tactics of the government

to force these unwanted services arrogantly defiant in the face of both

the Christian commitment to life and just a week earlier this a premium

Court decision in Hosanna Taber. In fact this past year has seen six

specific Salt’s against the church that I just want to briefly review here one

is this already noted action by our Department of Health and Human Services

mandating that in the Obama health care bill birth control services be delivered

and all employer related health coverage. Churches working with

the federal migration and refugee services are now required to

provide a full range of abortion and contraception services to trafficking

victims and unaccompanied minors. The U.S. Agency for International

Development has mandated delivery. Of the same services to all

persons involved in any international relief programs the U.S. Department of Justice has begun to

legally label the federal Defense of Marriage Act support for

traditional marriage as bigotry. Support for traditional marriage

is quickly becoming seen as being legally bigoted in those states that have

passed laws in support of gay marriage with Washington State becoming recently

the seventh state to allow such. And adoption and foster care services

involving the Church have seen state white contracts being lost by Catholic and other

Christian organizations in California in Massachusetts in Illinois for refusing

to place children in gay and **** home. Considering the wide ranging scope of

these actions actions that will afflict all Protestant churches and ministries

as well as a Catholic church it is arguable that the current administration

now supports a comprehensive and thoroughgoing secularization of our

government wiping out the delicate balance between church and state that has gone on

since the founding of the United States. The current administration in

Washington is devolving into an anti Christian right stealing regime of

the federal government church and ministry assaultive actions without

precedent in our history as stated recently by Katherine Jean Lopez in

the National Review Online we live in a country that has long guarded religious

freedom believing it to be a good for the life of the nation but current government policy suggests

something else President Obama and his ministration have demonstrated a

hostility to the free exercise of religion in the public square except that is

when it can be used to justify a policy dictated by the left City ology regarding

the size and scope of government. In the influential Journal first things

the archbishop of Los Angeles Jose Gomez warned that in spite of religious freedoms

first reference in the First Amendment signaling its preeminence to the founding

fathers today both government and culture Express. Expressed a hostility toward religious

beliefs and at best opposed. And where religious believes are simply

one of many optional lifestyle choices tragically religious liberty

is often trumped in the face of challenges from competing rights

in interesting to be more important. Gomez incisively argued that our country’s

founders recognize that religious freedom is a right and down by God not

a privilege granted by government and they respected that what God has given

no one not a court a legislature or any institution can rightly deny. Therefore we believe it’s

time to advance a new agenda what we are calling at least tentative

lay the faith factor declaration. Were involved in putting together and we are going to be inviting a group

from our leadership in the A.C.C.. A group that will put together

a statement of RB leaves about being faithful in the public sphere. Being able to maintain our

right to assert and express. Our faith in all our Christian counseling. We want to dispel also the notion that

Christian counseling and ministry in all its forms is a purely private activity

that has no influence in or consequence on the legal rules and public policy

that shape our nation’s laws and values. This declaration intends to be a

significant enterprise of the kind that’s been for called forth by James skill and

in a recent article in The Journal edification by the A.C.C.

related society for Christian psychology. In that journal Skillman called for

a principled public pluralism that embeds Christian counseling and

American society and law in this manner. I want to argue that the freedom and

obligation you have to develop a Christian approach in your

work should be fully protected and encouraged by the laws of the land and

by various public licensing and accrediting agencies and

this should be done in an equitable pluralistic manner that gives

the same protection and encouragement to those who approach counseling and

therapy from different points of view. In addition U.S. Christian professionals should be exercising your

responsibility both individually. And as an association to help shape

the public standards designed to hold everyone who practices in and

is served by your profession. There is no neutrality in either

your personal realm or practice or the public realm of the common

distinctions we should draw between these two realms therefore is not between

private Christian work on the one hand and public sector conditions on the other

hand instead the distinction we should draw is between the practice of

Christian counseling on the one hand and the Christian contribution to the shaping

of just public standards for ECT. Would have treatment of

clients in counselors who operate from different

worldviews on the other hand. The skill in argues very correctly I

believe that Christian counseling in all its varied forms has just

as much right to exist and be offered to the populace as any

non-Christian or secular therapy. Considering that tens of millions of

Christ can Festing citizens in the US it may be in fact have

more right to exist and flourish than most of the alternatives

to the point the government and the thoroughgoing secularized mental

health professions have no right to exclude Christian counseling by

either suppressing its practice or by giving some kind of public ordination

to preferred forms of secular therapy what do we have to do that on behalf of

Christian counseling both as individuals and as an organization we’ve got to

remember that focus on the family for example is already being branded

a hate group due to its sixth Aurukun biblical defense of traditional

one man one woman marriage. The Obama Justice Department is

already labeling support for traditional marriage as bigotry

a legal charge with very serious ramifications if it sticks as

a Christian counselor and a marriage and family therapist advertising in

the public sphere you may already be targeted as a legal bigoted by your

own government simply because of your stand in support of traditional and

biblical foundations of marriage. So. We are declaring a new day

a day where our allegiance to Christ is respected and welcomed in

the service we provide to others. Our clients truly by the millions in

the tens of millions are demanding it. And we have a duty as

Matt Staver said to offer and deliver it to the people who want it. So. The first thing we need to do

is support Christian counseling connected to the church. Florida has a state

statute that allows for the development of a professional

counseling practice within the context of the church and

under the church’s authority. I want to take this law beef it up

with some critical standards and then take it to every legislature in the

country seeking to have that made law so that Christian counseling truly can

be reconnected through the church which is its first client. I think if we develop a network across

the entire nation of churches that have Christian counseling practice is

vigorously being practice and vigorously advocating for Christ all throughout

the country there is little that can be done against does by those who would seek

to drive us out of the public sphere. Secondly we need to support and

protect professional Christian counseling. The twenty thousand or nearly twenty

thousand members of the sea practices professional Christians are increasingly

experiencing licensure boards that are less than supportive of our Christian

counseling activity we want to create and we want to strengthen the carve out

such as been given in footnote four to psychology graduate programs across

the country we want to create that carve out in every discipline practicing today

throughout the country so that if and when settler associations threaten

our values by requiring inherence to some secular counseling stance we can

respond by delivering these carve out exemptions among all the licensure boards

and secular associations in the country. Third we need to support the A.C.C.

code of a. Fix. Our code of ethics now operates in over

a dozen countries around the world. And is in the process right

now of being revised for the first time I think it’s coming

to a place where we’re going to have a great code that

needs to be supported and promulgated throughout the church and

throughout Christian counseling. For three need to support Christian

counselors and litigation this is. I don’t think we can. Deny any longer the reality that. Christians are being sued and

Christians are going to court to defend their rights to practice as

Biblical Christians we’ve got at least three strong organizations in

the country two of which are with us tonight that are working in defense

of Christian counseling and Christian rights throughout

the country Let’s support them finally let’s celebrate the reversal

of the Julie award case on appeal. It’s an amazing read to go

through the appellate opinion and recognize that the judge not only saw the

duplicity of the Michigan University but directed Julie award in

the argument she can make it a new jury trial which she ordered

Ward’s free speech claims deserve to go to a jury said the judge

although the university submits it dismiss Ward from the program because her request

for a referral violated the AC a code of ethics a reasonable jury could

find otherwise that the code of ethics contains no such bar and that the

university deployed it as a pretext for punishing wards religious views and

speech the A C. a code of ethics in the first place

does not prohibit values based referrals like the ones were requested like

the ones that Eric just talked about. We are in a serious fight. It is likely that we will be engaged in

the defense of Christian counseling at it a much higher level than ever before for

the remainder of our lives here likely for the remainder of this century

constitutional freedoms that we’ve taken for granted for over two hundred years

are now at risk by an alien world view that elevates every individual

as his or her own god the clash of this worldview with the revelation of God

in the Bible can no longer be denied. Counselors and clinicians will

need to be prepared to fight for their client’s right to have their faith

and biblical values respected in therapy we plead with you to join this movement

to protect religious freedom to protect the rights of conscience inherent

to Christian counseling done and it’s best we believe that your advocacy for these

precious personal religious and systemic rights is every bit as important as your

exercise of these precious practise rights in the future defending your right to

practice is and will be as important as doing that practice as well as

you can it would be tragic to learn this hard won a lesson as a result of

losing the right to practice our faith and exercise its necessary influence in

the public square and if we don’t act of certainly in defense of these rights

losing them seems more and more likely. If we instead will stay in corporately and

act in the power of God. We can stop this assault or

at least we can limit its damage. Or. We may end up doing nothing and watch

these rights being trampled on as they are lost which way will you

choose I hope you join us.

Considering Ethics and the Faith Factor – Jeremy Tedesco, Esq.

I was asked to talk about this topic

ethical legal response three litigation strategies for the precedent creating

protection of Christian counseling now. Has to mention I was one of the chief and

one of the chief litigators in the Julie award litigation and I had expected

my colleagues to talk a lot about that case it turns out that they

touched on it just a little bit so I want to talk a little bit more about

that I’d planned it Julie awards Casey was a student in The Graduate counseling

program in Eastern Michigan University she had nearly completed the program she

was at about thirty eight forty eight credit hours had just a few courses left

was a three point nine one student and she got kicked out and why did she get

kicked out because it when she was in rolled in the practicum class where

she saw actual clients as part of her counseling degree she was assigned

a client her third client was a client who was a man who wanted assistance

with homosexual a ship issues now Julia understood that the counseling

professional out for referrals she had been encouraged to seek supervision if she

had a values conflict with the client and so that’s what she did she went to her

supervising professor Nast which I do and the professor said well I’d you know in

these circumstances the best thing is to resign this client the some other student

who’s in practice and which is what happened and then a couple days later she

was brought up on disciplinary charges and of the code of ethics for imposing her

values in engaging in sexual orientation discrimination and she was also ultimately

drug through a disciplinary process where I think the high later the late

really of that process was one of the professors in

the counseling program. Engaging her in what he called himself

a theological bout where he question her interpretation and understanding

of scripture as it relates to helping individuals who want to systems with

homosexuality ship issues and so the university was

clearly targeting her for her religious beliefs they denied her

a referral even though referrals are. Very well accepted practice within the

profession and ultimately they expelled or from the university for

her her simple request to refer in so we ultimately sued in that case and as some of the presenters have mentioned

we lost the district court but the Sixth Circuit recently reversed that

decision back in January of this year and were headed to trial in that case

in October was a great victory at the Sixth Circuit and we expect to

prevail at trial another case I want to bring your attention in these in my

introductory comments here are really to point out to you that Christian counselors

are under attack within the profession both those who are trying to enter the

profession through education programs and those who all ready with hold licenses

to practice the Jennifer Keaton case is another perfect example of how Christians

are under attack within the profession in the Jennifer Keaton case all Jennifer

did was express her religious beliefs regarding homo sexual behavior and

relationships in class and out of class to some of her colleagues and what

the university did was brought her into. A meeting and told her you need to

have remediation in the point of the remediation was to get her to a point

where she was willing to affirm the moral good of homosexual behavior in the context

of a counseling session and if she was unwilling to do that she would not get her

degree and ultimately Jennifer Keitt and said I can’t do that to do that would

require me to violate my core religious beliefs now this case one of the eleventh

Circuit Court of Appeals and what was the Court of Appeals response to

this it was disturbing the court said and you see it in your notes here I have

a quote it in bold it because it’s so disturbing Keaton may choose not

to attend Augusta State University indeed may choose a different career so

what the court was saying was if you want to be a Christian you can’t

be a counselor you have to choose one or the other that is a very disturbing

development and we hope to have that changed as we proceed with more litigation

in this area another way we can see how. Christian counselors are under

attack is some of the actions of the American Counseling Association

they’re increasingly taking positions in venues that could and ultimately probably

will systematically exclude Christians and others who take their religious

faith seriously from the profession why does this matter because the A C. A is a very influential organization when

it comes to the counseling profession. That as some of our presenters have

already mentioned they are highly influential in the way that states

regulate the profession over twenty states have adopted the code of ethics or

at least portions of it as the regulations that govern the profession in addition

to that public universities and private universities that have accreditation

through an organization called pre-K. crap that’s your acronym I won’t try for

their actual full name that is the organization that provides

accreditation to counseling programs across the country take up requires

schools to teach about the A C. a code of ethics in their program

in order to get accreditation so the AC also exerts a lot of influence

over those programs because their code is required to be taught within

the context of those programs. Another example I want to give you

a couple more examples of the concerning actions of the CIA how they show us the

Christians really are under attack within the profession first of all is their

heavy involvement in the Julie award case all in favor of the universities

positions in that case for instance the provide an expert to the

University an expert witness who testified that Julius referral

request violated the A C. code of ethics even though the code of

ethics says that you can make value based referrals referrals from any other kind of

reason the CLI many non-religious reasons the A C. also filed a legal brief at the appellate

court when we appealed the trial court’s decision. In that they get supported the expulsion

of Julia from the program in the in doing so they said in ink he even

conceded in their brief and I’m quoting. But the code of ethics does not

require counselors to affirm any and all values no matter how morally offensive

they also said that students need not counsel within every client’s value system

so the AC was saying not everybody has has to counsel within every value system

of the client many can just refer if they have a conflict but Julie award

couldn’t and as you understand surely when I describe your constitutional rights we

think that’s a constitutional problem. A few more examples of concerning a C. actions deal with their public

objections to state laws that are trying to rectify this problem the public

universities where they are not respecting the constitutional or religious liberties

of their students in Arizona the A.C.L.U. actually objected to a bill that has

now been signed into a law which is very encouraging development but that bill

they objected to allows students to refer clients that are assigned to them

within the context of a counseling program degree seeking program where they

have a values conflict that with that claim that’s based on their sincerely

held religious beliefs the went so far as to claim that those kind of

referrals quote harm the public in quote are directly contrary

counter to the ethical standards of the counseling profession nothing

could be further from the truth and given the increasing hostility to

Christians remaining entering remaining within the profession it’s incumbent upon

people who want to enter the profession or are within it to understand their

constitutional rights and I’m going to explain some of those rights in the next

section of my presentation First of all is the free exercise of religion which is

protected of course by the First Amendment the United States Constitution and this

is actually a key protection especially in the context of referring clients

when you have a values based referral I’m sorry value based conflict with the

client in the reason for that is that the. Code of Ethics broadly allows for referrals even those based

on values conflicts and let’s look at a couple of the provisions

first you look at Section eight eleven B. of the code it states that counselors can. Refer a client if they determine

an inability to be of professional assistance to a client. So that broadly allows for referrals for many reasons including

many non-religious reasons is really a very broad allowance for referrals

then you look at Section eighty nine B. which states that counselors can refer

clients to seeking end of life counseling if the requested therapy conflicts

with the counselors moral or personal beliefs so there you have

a specific example of a values based referral that’s allowed within the AC

a code of ethics in the appeals court in the Julie a work case actually

evaluated the code of ethics and other evidence for materials as well and

in held that the A C. A code expressly permits value based

referrals which is a very good holding not just within the context of the Julie

award case but it’s a holding about what the code says about referrals that we

can use outside of that case as well and here’s the important point where

referrals are permitted for non-religious reasons as

the code clearly does allow the free exercise clause

likely requires the government to allow councillors to refer when they

have a religiously based need to refer. Some more constitutional protections

that you should be aware of these arising out of the freedom of speech

clause which again is protect it is included in the First Amendment the United

States Constitution there’s two primary protections there are going to discuss the

first is compelled speech that compelled speech doctrine generally prohibits the

government from being able to force you to provide counseling that violates

your religious or moral convictions now some examples of that are threatening

to rescind your license or expelling you from a university program

unless you’re willing to provide gay affirmative therapy in the Jennifer Keaton

case is a perfect example of that right Jennifer Keaton objected to providing. To she objected to the message

the university wanted her to be willing to express to clients which was that homo

sexual behavior is morally good and acceptable and

because she was unwilling to do that they expelled it from the program in our view

that’s a clear cut case of compelling. Beach the government shouldn’t be

allowed to do that another example is the concerning action from the California

marriage Association of marriage and fair family therapist where they released

a statement a few years ago saying that they were for marriage equality ultimately

for treating same sex couples the same as traditional male female marriages now

does that mean that in California license counselors have to provide marriage

therapy to same sex couples I certainly hope not in to the extent the state is

saying that that’s what’s required or tries to require a licensed therapist to

do that and that therapist has a religious objection that too would be compelled

speech viewpoint discrimination is another protection provided by the First Amendment

that generally prohibits the government from being able to punish you based on

the religious beliefs that motivate your referral request or the way in which you

incorporate your religious beliefs into your practice you some examples of that

threatening to rescind your license or expelling you from a university

program because of the religious particular religious views you hold about

a subject matter most likely this day and age homosexual a ships or behavior and the word case again is

a perfect example of that the evidence in the ward case clearly

shows that the university was unhappy to say the least with Julia’s particular

religious beliefs about this issue again one of her professors engaged her

on what he called a theological bout requestion her understanding of scripture

other professors asked her if she felt that she was superior to other Christians

that didn’t agree with her point of view on that matter it was very clear that they

disliked the religious motivation for her referral request and

that was ultimately the reason for the expulsion which would be a violation of the protection against

viewpoint discrimination. Another area where the First Amendment

provides protection is the right to free association now what that

right protects is it prevents the government from being able to punish

you based on your religious political or social associations me give

you a couple examples of this. Imagine that a homosexual activists

finds out that you’re affiliated with Exodus International which we

probably in this conference all know. It is a group that proposed promotes

therapies designed to help people leave the homo sexual lifestyle now imagine then

that the activist once he finds is out files a complaint with the state licensing

board alleging that you pose a danger to the public because of your

association with this organization because of your beliefs regarding home

sexual relationships and behavior unfortunately I’m not making this up this

actually happened a few years ago and we represented the counselor who had this

at thinks charge by filed against her and ultimately we got the licensing board

to pretty quickly dismiss those ethics charges but you need to understand that

these things are already occurring and really where the tip of the iceberg on

this another example imagine that you are a school counselor and then in your

private capacity you appear in a political advertisement that supports the repeal of

the same sex marriage law through voter referendum and then activists then

find out about this and file an ethics complaint against you with the state board

because of your participation in that in saying that makes you unfit because of

the beliefs you hold about this subject to be a counselor in a school again and

sadly I’m not making this up this also happened in a state

within our great United States and again the licensing board

pretty quickly after that was. It was filed dismissed those charges but

again these things are already occurring and it just takes a state license or board

to continue to pursue those actions to to make this a much more significant threat

to religious liberty than already is and believe me anything our clients

are very concerned when they’re very livelihood was threatened through

an ethics charge another protection is you are protected from vague and overbroad

licensing laws you’re also protected from laws that Grant unbridled discretion

to enforcement officials and this is. And of an esoteric thing but

let’s look at that vague laws or laws that use vague terms that make one

guess as to whether their conduct is actually provided by the law overbroad

laws or raw laws that are written so broadly that they prohibit a substantial

amount of protected expression unbridled discretion means that

the laws use such undefined or open ended terms that enforcement

officials can use them to reach out and restrict or censor protected expression or

activities and let me give you a couple examples of this game we go to the code

of ethics the code of ethics for the E.C. a prohibits quote unquote

condoning discrimination in it prohibits that based on a myriad

of characteristics including age culture disability ethnicity

race religion slash Spartan or I’m sorry religion slash spirituality

gender gender identity sexual orientation marital status slash partnership language

preference socio economic status or any basis prescribed by law that’s

a litany of characteristics of very broad prohibition and concerning only what is

condoning discrimination does that mean if you take a position that’s contrary

to what the profession thinks about for instance how to properly counsel

individuals who want help with homosexuals a shift or behavior

that you’re condoning discrimination if you disagree disagree with the profession

says is the right way to handle those situations the National Association of

Social Workers code is probably worse it states the social workers should

not practice condone facilitate or collaborate with any form of

discrimination Now these laws have not been enforced in a way

necessarily to prohibit. Protected expression. But. They very well could because they have

the seeds of these kind of problems within them now I want you to understand

that the constitutional protections that I have laid out here ultimately do

not apply to private employers so what protects the private

employee Well it’s. Title seven of the Civil Rights Act of

Knight Act of one thousand nine hundred sixty four and I just want to go through

or quickly what your rights are under that act religious employee to make out a claim

under Title seven must show three things first that you hold a sincere religious

belief that conflicts with an employment requirement second that you have informed

your employer about that conflict and third that you are discharged disciplined

are subject to district to discriminatory treatment for failing to comply with

the conflicting employment requirements once you prove those elements the employer

has to accommodate your religious beliefs unless you can show that the employer and

Leslie employer can demonstrate that all the possible combinations would

result in an undue hardship for the employer which is a difficult

standard for the employer. And wanted to briefly address the Bruff

case which some of you may know about if you’re following what’s going on legal

world the case was from two thousand and one it was a fifth Circuit Court of

Appeals case involved a religious employee who worked at a private entity and

then to be provided counseling services within a region of the state of

Mississippi there are only three employees on staff who counseled and the person

had a religious objection to providing affirmative therapy to clients

regarding homosexual relationships and she lost her case not because she didn’t

make out a religious discrimination claim because unfortunately her accommodation

would have imposed an undue hardship on the employer the most important

in their stand or if it wouldn’t impose an undue hardship she would have

won her religious discrimination claim so a lot of people thought that case on

the other side was actually not as bad as they make it sound now in the end I

just want to talk a little bit about practice pointers that I thought Hope you

can incorporate into your practice to help you better defend your incorporation

of your religious face in faith in your counseling practice if specially

if it ever becomes challenge to first of all were appropriate

you should seek a referral if you have an irreconcilable

values conflict with the client and you believe that continuing

the counseling relationship. Will ultimately not be in the best

interest of the client and then again like I said before

the code already and other licensing other codes within the mental health

professions already broadly allow for referrals in many contexts and so

to deny you or to punish you for seeking a referral you have a religious conflict

with the client would likely violate your First Amendment rights thing an important

practice point when it comes to asking for a referral especially when you’re dealing

with a client over sexual values or practices and that’s the nature of

the conflict is to express your objection to assisting the client

with sexual relationship or behavior issues that contravene

biblical standards that you believe in in terms of the broader Biblical

teachings on sexual morality and this isn’t specially important when you’re

objecting to counseling a client regarding homosexual behavior in relationship issues

because it will demonstrate that your objection is not to counseling

clients to identify as **** or gay but rather it is to counseling on certain

topics sexually immoral behavior that may violate your biblical beliefs regardless

of the person’s sexual orientation and this is an important thing

in the appeals court in the Julie award case stress this they

found that Julia Ward was not guilty of imposing her values and not guilty

of sexual orientation discrimination because and I’m quoting here she conveyed

her willingness to counsel gay and **** clients on all other issues all but

relationship issues in attitude confirmed by her equivalent concern

about counseling heterosexual clients about extramarital sex and adultery and

values affirming way so you see there how broadening the objection in a way that’s

very consistent with scriptural teachings helps you to show that your objection

isn’t to people who identify as gay or **** but is to counseling about certain

subjects that violate your core religious beliefs you’ve heard some of the

presenters talk about informed consent and I like to reiterate some of what they

said it’s important what the code says about informed consent and

I’m quoting here from their code. They say clients have the freedom

to choose whether to enter into or remain in a counseling relationship and

need adequate information about the counseling process and the counselor

counselors have an obligation to review in writing invertible with clients

the rights and responsibilities of both the counselor and the client the

code also goes on to say that counts or should explicitly explain to clients

the nature of all services provided So the upshot of this is be explicit in your

informed consent about your Christian nature of your practices and methods

you should also specify that clients have a right to choose to be counseled

from this Christian perspective or to choose not to and

if that they choose not to be counseled from that perspective that

you will provide a list to refer holds where the client can seek the counseling

services that he or she needs. Another just general practice point is to

always frame what you’re doing in the best interest of the client you should be

thinking about the best interests of the client you should stress

that the actions you’re taking whether it’s referring the client

because of a religious value conflict explaining the Christian basis of

your crew of your practice and therapy methods you should stress that

those things are being done in the best interest of the client we consider value

based referrals a perfect example of this we clearly understand as a as they

can the counseling profession clearly understands the value based

referrals are in the best interest of the client you’ve heard some of

the presenters already talk about that and that’s because a values conflict if not

resolved can negatively impact the outcome of the accounts a relationship the best

thing to do is to is there in that thing that’s in the best interest of the client

is to refer that client on to another counselor who’s better able to meet their

needs and doesn’t have that is conflict with the client in fact has values

that are similar to clients of the get the best possible outcome and

strategically important to create a record where it’s clear that your actions

are being taken in the best interest of the client you should

be careful to do that. Another thing that’s obvious but still I think needs to be stated

is be courteous and be reasonable when you’re you don’t want to be hard

headed or belligerent or forced. Well with your clients or your supervisors

when you’re asserting your rights as a Christian counselor instead you should

express carrots or concern for your clients and you should be respectful and

cooperative with your supervisors you’re much more likely to be successful in form

in informally resolving a dispute or ultimately formally resolving disputes

maybe through litigation if you are reasonable and courteous with those

involved another obvious thing but I think still needs to be said

is to choose the correct job. And then while I know that that’s not

always possible I think it’s very important to try to find

employer who’s practices and policies will comedy your religious

convictions or even better their their values are in line with yours so

you’re never going to have this kind of. Situation where you have an employment

requirement that violates your core religious beliefs. Another practice pointers related to Title

seven and I just want to reiterate that you should provide a written notification

to your employer about your sincerely held religious beliefs and how they conflict

with an employment requirement your notification should also specifically

mention that you’re asking for really reasonable accommodation and you

should emphasize that you’re committing committed and working

cooperatively with your employer to come up with an accommodation that doesn’t

impose a hardship on your employer. And also like to talk quickly

about repaired of therapy and how to handle situations dealing with it

repaired of therapy first there’s really no clear definition of what repaired

of therapy therapy is in my view it’s largely a term that the other side uses

to label therapies they don’t like and want to prohibit So first don’t claim that

you’re engaging in repaired of therapy that doesn’t have a clear definition and

there’s no reason for you to attach the label because

they’re going to be trying to. For certain Instead I think you should

describe your counseling in religious terms and I have specified in my

notes here a way to do that and I think that’s the way you want to do it. I also think because of the risk that you may ultimately be found to be engaging

repaired of therapy you should. Make sure that you have an informed

consent that tells people about the petition particular risks of

the therapy that you’re engaging in and gives them the opportunity to give

their written consent to engage in that therapy and ultimately your consent

should also make clear that if the client determines that the you

know no longer want to be seen by you in be subjected to a Christian perspective

on the issues they can’t come to see you about that you will provide for

a referral for those individuals so they can get the therapy they want from

the therapist that best meets their needs. And with that I will

conclude I’ve got a few more ideas in my notes that I would commend

to your reading thank you very much.

Considering Ethics and the Faith Factor – Matt Staver, Esq.

I want to talk about impending

threats to Christian counselors and I want to focus particularly on some of

the counseling ethics codes and focus on a specific area where I think we’re facing

a major threat want to focus first of all on the American Counseling Association

in the American Counseling Association. Has in its ethical guidelines its

position on repairing a therapy or the broader term change

therapy in the guidelines it says this to refer a client to someone

who engages in change therapy or repaired of therapy in their view or their

terminology regarding same sex attractions communicates to the client that his or

her same sex attractions and behaviors are disordered and therefore

need to be change this the A.C.S. says contradicts the dictates of the two

thousand and five a CA code of ethics so we begin with that proposition the code

of ethics in the a CA also goes on to say that we find no

scientific evidence for published psychological peer reviewed journals

that conversion therapy is effective. Let me make sure we’re on the same. Powerpoint page here is

the requirement for counselors. And this is a hypothetical that’s given

in the code of ethics the counselor is presented with someone who is having

the same sex attractions they have not acted on the same sex attractions

they do not want to act on those same sex attractions and they do not believe that

they are homosexual that they are gay or **** they come to you as a counselor for

counseling this is what the A C. a code of ethics talks

about the requirement for a counselor in a situation like that any

professional It says that is engaging in such repaired of therapy or change

therapy must receive appropriate training in such treatment sounds reasonable you

need to have the training in the area of counseling but however the a CA goes

on to say there is no professional training condoned by the A.C.L.U. or other

prominent mental health associations so you start off with the proposition that

you need to have appropriate training which seems reasonable and then the AC

says but there is no such training so you know where this ultimately is

going in the counselor’s the A.C.S. says stating that they can

offer conversion therapy or repaired of therapy must also offer

referrals to gay **** bisexual affirmative affirmative affirmation

firming counselors the code of ethics strongly suggests that ethical

professional counselors do not refer clients to someone who

engages in conversion therapy or if they do to proceed cautiously only

when they are certain that the referral counselor fully informs the client of

the unproven nature of the treatment and the potential risk and

take steps to minimize the harm so the A CA code of ethics is then moving

towards what the requirements for councillors are informed consent and obviously I think all of

us in this area where. I agree that counselors need to have

an informed consent but the mandatory informed consent of the counselors

is something that is quite startling first of all the consent needs to say that

any professional that’s engaging in such treatment needs to have the training there

however is no training the counseling requirements that counselors need to

have as far as this an informed consent. Is that let me get to this Power Point. That first of all the therapy or the

treatment the counseling that I am about to provide or that some other counselor

will provide upon my referral assumes that same sex attractions and

behavior are mentally disordered that’s part of the are informed

consent under the A C. code of ethics so that you don’t

violate one of those ethical codes. The next thing however that the counselor

must provide is that this belief the very fact that I will counsel

you that change is possible or that someone else may counsel you to

whom I refer that change is possible counter addicts the position held by

the American Council in association and other health and by a medical professional

organizations the third point and that is required of informed consent so

as not to violate the ethical code is that conversion therapy as

a practice is a religious and not a psychologically based practice. The next criteria is that there

is no training offered or condoned in this area and

the next point is that research does not support conversion therapy as

an effective treatment modality and then another is that there is potential

harm when clients participate in conversion therapy so

to kind of recap this and there’s one more I’ll get to that the

therapy that I’m going to offer or that I’m going to refer you to assumes that

you’re disordered but that believe count. Dix the very licensing code if

you’re licensed under the A.C.L.U. and one of half of the states in

the country that contradicts the licensing of which I’m practicing under or the

licensing and the positions of every other mental health association by the way this

particular counseling is religious and it’s not psychologically based and

there’s no training offered Forte there’s no research that shows that

it’s effective and by the way you might actually be harmed by this in fact

treatment or this counseling and finally the last part of this is that there are

treatments indorsed by the Association for gay **** and bisexual issues in counseling

these treatments are gay affirmative and help a client reconcile his or her same

sex attractions with religious beliefs so after all of what I just said that there’s

no training that it’s against my licensing that in fact it could actually harm you

there’s another organisation I can refer you to that actually will affirm and

better help your situation if you do not follow that particular informed consent

and if you’re licensed in the state under the AC a code of ethics and

you either engage in that counseling or you’re first someone who will engage in

that counseling for someone who comes to you who is having same sex attractions but

they don’t want to act on and have not acted on the same sex attractions

and they do not believe that they’re gay or **** then if you don’t follow

that informed consent you will be found in violation of the CA code of

ethics Now that is startling but it’s even more startling as to how many

states actually have adopted the A C. code of ethics Alaska Arkansas Arizona. The District of Columbia Idaho Illinois

Louisiana Massachusetts Mississippi Nebraska North Carolina North Dakota

South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Utah West Virginia and

Wyoming beyond those there are additional states that have adopted

parts of the code of ethics Colorado. No the board refers licensees to the A C. A for advice and ethical guidelines and

Ohio the board there subscribes to the code of ethics and practice standards

for counselors promulgated by the CIA. Which shall be used as AIDS in

resolving ambiguous situations which may arise in the interpretation

of the rules of professional ethics and conduct so there are a guideline but

they’re not mandatory. In other words half of the states

including the District of Columbia have adopted the A C. a code of ethics. If you’re in one of those states and

licensed under the A C. code of ethics that’s the informed

consent you need to comply with. The National Association of Social Workers

position on change therapy says that such treatment potentially can

lead to severe emotional damage and transformational ministries ministries

that ultimately try to assist those with same sex attraction are fueled by

stigmatization of Lesbians and Gays. The American Psychological Association

the A.P.A. which as you know declassified

homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual in one thousand

nine hundred seventy three the position that it has on change their

plea is like these other organizations the American Psychological Association

opposes any psychological treatment such as quote repaired or close quote or

quote conversion close quote therapy. The American Association of for

Marriage and Family Therapist it has a position on

change or repaired of therapy as well. And its position is that such treatment

potentially can lead to severe emotional disorder or severe damage that same sex

attraction first of all is not a mental disorder and that we do not believe

according to the American Association for marriage and family therapy

that sexual orientation in and of itself requires treatment so

there’s a written over. Isn’t a council someone who comes to you

having same sex attractions even though they don’t want to act on it have not

act on it there’s no reason to counsel them because there’s no problem

according to this organization. Same sex orientation is a normal variant

of human sexuality that takes a variety of forms and expression. There’s a number of other efforts besides

what’s happening in the counseling organizations and we’ve touched on the

major organizations but there’s others but across the board the major organizations

have very similar opinions with regards to what oftentimes is referred

to as repaired of therapy or the broader term of change therapy. Legislative efforts have been underway in

addition to these organizations that we talked about because each one of these

organizations are actually involved in legislative policymaking that’s the reason

why the American Council in association has had its ethical code adopted in

half of the states in the country one such legislative effort is one

that is exceptionally concerning and it is an area in which Liberty Council

where I service chair are we are having a team of attorneys look at right now

with regards to this particular piece of legislation if indeed it passes

it will be the first such kind of its nature in the country its California

Senate bill eleven seventy two and it being a Ends changed their opinion or repaired of therapy in that

terminology for minors so if you are a minor not of age eighteen

you are not able to have this kind of treatment so as a parent even if you

wanted to take your son or daughter to. Counsel or because they’re having same sex

attractions and they’re struggling with the issues involved in same sex

attractions this particular legislation would prohibit you as a parent from

giving that kind of treatment to a minor. And in fact if your minor son or daughter

is in counseling at this moment and if this bill were to pass it would

ultimately affect your rights as a parent to continue that counseling even though

that counseling is having a therapeutic effect for your son or daughter State

Senator Ted Lieu who is one of the people pushing this particular bill was quoted

recently as stating the following quote The attack on parental rights is exactly

the whole point of the bill because we don’t want to let parents harm

their children preventative therapy hurts children so this bill allows us to

stop parents from hurting their children. That is a startling statement people have

alleged that this particular bill is an attack on parental rights it’s not only

an attack on printer rights it’s an attack on the minors who are receiving counseling

or who want to receive counseling and clearly it is an attack on counselors

themself because this bill would ultimately make it illegal to engage

in this kind of therapy I don’t know if there’s any other kind of therapy that

has ever faced this kind of scrutiny or certainly this kind of attempt to

literally literally criminalize but that’s in fact what’s happening in California it

is startling however that a state senator would come out and admit that the purpose

of this bill is to take away the rights of parents to have counseling or

therapy for their own minor children we are talking to counselors in California

who actually among many other other counseling practices do engage in change

their opinion client directed counseling when a client comes into their office

the counselor is asked by that client for certain kinds of therapy certain

kinds of therapeutic intervention and shouldn’t the client be able to ask for

that shouldn’t a client be able to have the freedom to be able

to ask that particular counselor for some kind of assistance. Yet in California if this bill

passes that would be illegal. And this would also mostly criminalize

the very act of counseling startling indeed the constitutional implications

of this are significant because for example you could have gay

affirming counseling you could have anything positive to say

about same sex attractions you could encourage someone that their same

sex attractions are normal variant and there’s nothing to be concerned about even

though the client is struggling with that and has issues that the client

needs to be resolved but on the other hand if you referred or

if you ultimately engaged in counseling based upon the client’s own interest

in being able to resolve this and not wanting to act upon these same sex

attractions then that would be illegal so only one viewpoint of this particular

very important subject matter would be criminalized clearly this

would be unconstitutional but yet in fact this is what’s happening

in the state of California if it passes it will have

a ripple effect in California for other councillors and possibly even

around the country with other states wanting to come on board to do

something very similar to the A.P.A. in addition to the legislative

actions in California the A.P.A. task force came out with a report and

it said that same sex attractions or same sex sexual attractions behavior

in orientations per se are normal and positive variance of human sexuality and recommended that licensed mental health

professional support adolescents ages in that particular task force of twelve

through eighteen to explore or have exploration of identity

by accepting homosexuality and bisexuality as normal and positive

variance of human sexual orientation. In addition to the legal

threats that we see happen. In California and all of these

counseling organizations focusing on moving to the legislative policy arena

totally restrict this area of counseling there’s legal threats as well and later

in this program tonight and the rest of the day you will also hear more specific

information about these legal threats so I won’t dwell too much on that but

I want to focus on two brief cases involving counseling students

these are students who wanted to pursue graduate counseling courses one in Augusta

State University Jennifer Keaton and the other in Eastern Michigan

University Julie award both of these individuals which you’ll learn about later

in this presentation were individuals who were pursuing their graduate

programs in counseling and they were alternately individuals who for

their religious beliefs did not accept homosexuality as a normal

part of human behavior and they were ultimately told that if

they did not accept or pursue and participate in various kinds

of gay affirming programs or even assignments that they would not be

able to complete their graduate training lawsuits have ensued and you’ll hear about

the results of those but these individuals alternately have been precluded

by some of these institutions and they’re not going to be the last students

that ultimately will be precluded by these institutions because of these kinds

of attempts to stop this area of counseling clearly this particular area of

counseling is a significant area of threat to Christian counselors let me talk just

briefly as I conclude about the roadmap. I think we’re at a situation in

history with regards to Christian counselors were Christian counselors

are literally the tip of the iceberg with respect to same sex attractions and

counseling and certainly there is a there is a necessity that

counselors address the religious and spiritual components of those

clients that counsel when. Counsel with them what about a client who

has a significant religious conviction with respect to homosexuality that

it is not a positive variant that they’re experiencing same sex attractions

but they don’t want to act on them and they haven’t and they want them all

to only resolve those issues and a Christian counselor wants to be able to

engage in therapy to that client who’s actually asking for this intervention

Christian counselors are literally facing the very tip of the spear where by virtue

of merely counseling that individual or referring that individual to someone else

for counseling that that will be punished either by an ethical code depending upon

what state and what licensing code you are licensed under or if California has

its way in the legislative arena and that passes through legislation

I think is councillors and certainly as the American Association of

Christian counselors being the largest Christian counseling organization

in the world I think it’s time for counselors to band together to

understand that that threat is real and to band together to do something

about it the roadmap ahead counselors I believe must be able to

address the client’s spiritual needs there is a relationship in the medical

arena between spirituality and morbidity and mortality rates the greater

the spirituality the better you have on these other mobility and mortality rates

and that in fact doctors from a medical person perspective outside of counseling

often times realize and there are studies that show that this relationship

clearly exist if someone has a strong spiritual foundation the more likely

that they will have a better recovery as opposed to somebody who has no spiritual

or a lower spiritual foundation it clearly is documented within the medical

literature within counseling I think it’s the same way in Christian counselors

have the right have the duty I believe to recognize that in the client that he or she is counseling to either address it

specifically or to refer to someone who. Who is better capable

to address that issue this area is not one of those

areas that we need to X. out this is an area for

client counselors and it’s an area for clients to be able to have the counseling

that he or she needs we need to also educate the public about the necessity

of working with the whole person and not just part of the person meaning the

spiritual components of these individuals that come into your office we also need

to educate about the importance of client directed counseling that clients clearly

have the right to have this counseling end of this would be unprecedented for

a client and for a counselor to have only this one area of counseling

off limits and I think finally and this is I think the beauty of the American

Association of Christian counselors. And the organization that it

has amassed over the years is that we need to organize and

we need to oppose legislative efforts to restrict Christian counselors we

need to do that on the state level and when to do that if necessary in the

nation’s capital we also need to be doing that with the various ethical codes

that are out there that are already in existence with the various psychological

organisations clearly A.C.C. is in the best position to be able to

organize Christian counsellors across a wide variety of experience and expertise

to band together because this is such a time if we don’t speak up now then we’ll

have to forever hold our peace I encourage you to get involved I encourage you

to learn more about this issue and I encourage you to join with other

counselors in your area and with A.C.C. because this is a critical and impending

and real threat to Christian counsellors.

Considering Ethics and the Faith Factor – Dr. Tim Clinton

So George let me start with you just

a quick synopsis of your presentation. Well I’d like to say that I agree with

maps point that we are at a historic crossroads really a crossroads

in the right to practice and bring our faith into our work as

counselors as caregivers as pastors even. And I think from now on we need to

embrace the idea that it would be just as important to defend our

right to practice as it will be to practice well to practice in

the best way we can it’s Christians. That’s where the. Well I talked about Christian counseling

and the evidence that shows that if you. Practice a Christian oriented counseling

and you match it well to the client then the evidence supports that it will

be at least as effective as a similar secular therapy and it will probably

have better spiritual effects. To Jeremy to disco. In than the most important

point I think to take away from my discussion is that Christians are under

attack within the profession whether they are trying to enter it or retain lace I’m sure that they are already

have and it’s incumbent upon them at this time this critical time to understand what

their rights are in ultimately be willing to stand up to defend them because

of this generation doesn’t do that the next generation of Christian

councils will have less or no rights. TO TALK TO SCHOOL East’s. Talk about was how important it was to

understand that we must be spiritually competent to provide great care

to the clients that come into our practices wrestling with

a variety of mental health issues and disorders and that the language

that actually already exist. Out there in a number of secular

professional entities like A.P.A. CA am F T even regulatory boards already give us a platform on which

we can stand in advocate for our clients faith based values and

advocate for this whole issue and it’s not so much about just choosing

one value over another whether it’s religion or ethnicity or culture

a variety of things what it is is about supporting it advocating a client’s right

to self-determination and honoring and respecting their value system as well

as making sure that we and that we as. Professionals hold the profession

accountable to addressing and being competent to deliver care

when it comes to spirituality. And state for I talked about the imminent

threats to Christian councilors in one specific area and there are many

threats in other areas as well my focus was with regards to counseling someone

with same sex attractions in the threats come from several different fronts that

come from the professional Council in associations that come from the ethical

codes of those states that have adopted the American Council in association

a code of ethics they are coming from the legislative arena for example most

frequently in recently in California and they’re coming from the legal

arena as well and consequently counselors need to understand those

threats not to cower to those threats but ultimately rise up and challenge and

ultimately move forward because I think what’s at stake is the right

of Christian counselors to counsel and ultimately have clients in self directed

counseling that need that spiritual component to be addressed and so I think

those issues are at stake and I think it’s time that we educate ourselves about that

and we mobilize and do something to make sure that we continue to have the right to

counsel and I don’t know if any of you at some general questions you want to ask

each other for a moment right before. Matt jumps into the stack

of questions of come in but tonight really isn’t about taking on

an issue the issue of homosexuality tonight our focus was the whole issue of

spirituality and faith for a moment and talking about how significant is

faith to therapeutic outcomes and then obviously when there is a conflict

therapeutically what do we do. Reverse the situation either way but

how do we go about that what is the preferred professional

ethic and how can we be responsible in conducting ourselves as professionals

one question I had I want to direct over to Dr Worthington was as you’ve

looked through the research on outcomes related to let’s say religion spirituality

faith issues and mental health are you encouraged I mean specifically in

Christian counseling Are you encouraged or is there is such a you

know just such scant work that it’s not really substantive and

something that we can’t stand on. I’m encouraged then again I

kind of positive psychology. I mean easily encouraged. But you know I think that there is

a firm foundation of research and there’s research basically showing

that faith matters to people’s physical mental health relationships and

spirituality and also there’s a body of research that

says that Christian counseling works and it produces happy clients too

you know it doesn’t just work so I am I’m encouraged I think I mean

courage because of the evidence base not just because I happen to

be a real positive got a. Great anyone else I would just add

to would Dr Worthington saying. It is as Christian professionals

whether we’re Akam additions or clinicians we have to understand

the rules of engagement and we can’t just say well I believe the Bible

and therefore I know faith works and it’s important which we all believe and

it’s true but we have to be willing and able to effectively engage the profession

at the level that they can relate to and if that’s research that’s competent

well designed I’m confident and encourage that the results will support

what we already know to be truth but we have to go out and demonstrate

it to maybe a somewhat disbelieving professional world out there so some may

be a little bit confused on the issue of where they practice or how as how

they practice as a professional or maybe a lake counselor a pastor or

a chaplain and the context is a lot to do with what we’re

talking about tonight too as professionals meaning you’re licensed by the state in a

various One of the mill health disciplines you are regulated by the state

you are governed by the code of ethics that’s out there and

so you’ve got some challenges now as we look at all that what we’re

trying to do is move so move our way through this maze if you will where

there’s a lot of controversy going on and we’re just trying to give language and

conversation to this sort of back to you Matt Well Dr Klein We

have a lot of questions already we’ve got more coming they’re going to direct

them all to Dr we’re going to direct. Everyone does have

a positive time together. But you can e-mail your questions

the staff here in A.C.C. will bring them up here and

we’ll try to get through as many of those as possible let me start off with

this general question I’ll throw it out to the panel and I want to come

back with a specific question on the religious aspect of counseling but

we are seen some questions coming in from across the country about

these different kinds of code. Yes and whether or not you’re

a professional license counselor versus a pastoring counselor can the panel and

I’ll throw it out to anyone of you address how those different levels a pastor who is

counseling but not a licensed counselor or a counselor who is licensed but they’re

licensed under this code versus that code how do they maneuver through all that

who was affected by our conversation. In Matt that it’s a great question

because you know I’m just thinking within a species constituency we have pretty

much the whole continuum of care from life coaches to pastoral

counselors Lake counselors. Master and doctoral level but unlicensed

counselors an unlicensed clinicians and you know if you’re licensed as

Dr Quinn said you have to adhere to the regulatory standards

that have been set for you or you risk discipline or

loss of your license when it comes to the issue of how

should Pastore all or Christian or lay counsels respond you know I’ve done

a lot of lay counts are training and where I often land is even though they

may not be regulated take the issue of reporting sexual abuse which

obviously is huge in the news right now they may not be a mandated reporter but

then I think that Pastor that church ministry has to work through pray

through discuss Do we have a moral obligation before God as His stewards

of these people are bringing to us even though we may not have a legal

obligation and so we have developed some ethical language a code that

addresses that whole continuum and George maybe you can speak a little bit

to in fact George that is a question from some of our viewers does A.C.C.

provide for example for concern. Model that they can use Yes Very much so

I think informed consent by both the professional which is

a very obvious requirement but increasingly by the pastor

even the lay counselor consent ultimately is more psychological

than legal OK And you can lose consent in the process of your client

simply disconnecting from you and eventually not showing up any more

in counseling so you know there’s a constant requirement am I connecting

with this person who’s come for help and my really assisting them

are they giving me honest feedback about how I’m affecting them that’s

all part of that consent process and I think every counselor is required

to be able to show that So anyone who has that question about informed

consent you can contact the A.C.C. and get that information from this is

a question the Dr Worthington and it is from Henry in Riviera Beach Florida

in one place you say or seem to say that there was an improvement in mental health

outcomes when religiously a comment of therapy was incorporated but in another

place you seem to say that there was equivalence in mental health outcomes

in Christian vs secular counseling but not superiority which was is it and

would you clarify which is correct great question and

my wife grew up in Riviera Beach and I’ve spent a lot of time down

there I probably know you. I said both of those there’s an

equivalence and then there’s a superiority but it matters what you’re

comparing the Christian group to so if you’re comparing the Christian

group to just an alternative treatment then the Christian group

actually works better than Chris. Condition works better

than the alternative but if you’re comparing it with a very

strictly similar group that only different in the religious content

then there is equivalent of mental health outcome even though a Christian group is

going to get better spiritual results. This is from Phyllis also in Florida

from Port St Lucie is there a problem to inform a client of your Christian

orientation or views to counseling and if there is a problem for the client then

to provide secular counseling without contradictory biblical or theological

principles through the back to the ME Yes. You know I I believe in informed value informed therapy so

I think the most conscionable thing that I can do is to tell the person

exactly where I’m coming from and let them make an autonomous choice

of what they want to do about it so so I will disclose my Christian beliefs now the person if the person says

I don’t want Christian counseling I’m fine and I want to connect with

the client that working alliance with the client is going to be important

if I can’t establish that working alliance I’m not going to be effective

no matter what I do so. I have no trouble myself saying

fun we can do this without referring explicitly decryption

my values are going to be you know Christian informed and if that

comes up as an issue I’ll let you know so that you can make an informed

decision about how to take that So this is the way that I like to

treat folks is very straight for. Words inform sounds and I love that

we’re working right now on a client Bill of Rights at the A C C I think

the N B C C The National Board for certify councils years ago had released

one and we felt it’s due time for us to do that very same thing because clients do have rights that’s being

responsible in what we’re doing. At a point to this if the client defect

question is concerned about whether or not the client is concerned whether or

not my Christian values will discriminate against them if they are not

Christian OK I’d want to pull that out of the client I’d want to raise that

question is that a concern of yours and I’d want to communicate to them that

you know I’m not going to treat them really any differently than I

would Christian or non-Christian. That their lack of Christian values is

not an impediment to me early start I want to state that as

far as possible OK and then let them make a decision whether

they want to continue the counseling or not I would also just add

is people of faith not to. Underestimate the power of presidents

the scripture says that it’s Christ in us the hope of glory this doesn’t say

Christ in us only if we talk about it is the hope of glory and I I had a private

practice for sixteen years that was publicized as overtly Christian but

we would get referrals from insurance companies whatever and sometimes

people say I know this is a faith or in practice but I don’t want

to go there you respect it but then I think if acknowledge of

Jesus Christ is alive in you and that is part of your worldview your value

system are you still having some impact on that person I believe you are I

think was St Augustine who said Preach the gospel always if

necessary use words and so I often understand that the power

of your presence as eight there. Are pissed can also continue to have

an impact even if you’re not using Christian terminology so

if I could just tell a little anecdote I remember being at

the University of Missouri and at that time this was many

many years ago it was really posed to any religious expression and

I was but if a client brings up a topic then you can talk

about it Thomas counseling a woman and she was just really I don’t know how

to say it other than a mess you know she’s doing about everything she can do to

be self destructive and not listen to this about five or six sessions and

I was becoming more and more hopeless and so I did what I would like to think

most counselors do I stop listening and I began to pray and

I just prayed like Lord you know if you don’t do something

this woman is going down the drain. And suddenly right in mid-sentence

she stops talking and she goes you know I think

I need to go see a priest. And I was like tell me more about it and now we can talk about faith

because she has brought this up you know it wasn’t just presence but

you know it’s God’s presence there I think you’ve touched on this

question this is from Elias and it’s really similar to what you’ve already

touched on how specific do you believe Christian counselors need to be in their

informed consent regarding their views of marriage or regarding their views of faith

and you’ve already touched on that you held yourself out in your publications

as a Christian counselor how much in detail did you go through with regards

to your informed consent of your faith. You know. In our service agreement it’s

a sort of a document that people in private practice use that covers

informed consent confidentiality and number of things like that you know I

had language that said this is a faith oriented a Christian faith oriented

practice however we respect the rights and the values of everyone

who walks in the door we offer it as a resource to

you if you’re interested. And then rather than sort of

outlining a case by case point by point here’s where we stand on marriage

here’s we see where we stand in sexuality here’s where we stand on divorce or

parenting or child discipline you sort of make a blanket statement and

then say now if you want to go there and talk about that because sometimes a client

might say well what do you think the Bible has to say about that and

I used to teach a marriage class and I would tell my students at

the universe as they listen if you do this long enough you’re going to

have faith based clients who are going to come in and quote chapter and verse why

they believe they have the big book all theological right to do what they’re

doing and they are Gaul going to be convinced they’re absolutely

theologically correct in you may have a totally different view what are you

going to do about it and so the reality is it can be all over the board but the least

you can engage in the conversation is. I think one of the he values of

a good intake form is that it asked questions even specific

questions as much as you have room for about a person’s religious history

their values even a checkoff system around issues they may want to discuss

that you know you will bring up and they will be primed to know in advance

that you’re likely to bring these issues out in the open you specially

ask questions about suicide or homicide and Ted they then know. So that they’re going to

be asked about this and they’re preparing themselves to engage

in that kind of conversation but all I want to add to it is this it’s

a great conversation what we’re saying is matters of faith are significate to

positive therapeutic outcomes done well that’s a big deal and a lot of us you know

we get all afraid talking about God and religion or spirituality in

therapy we don’t need to do that. But it was terrified it’s crazy and

it seems like the issues that I was talking about with regards to

same sex attraction really is not so much about that as it is as it is about

the client who has a religious convictions that thirty example the Bible says this

with regards to same sex attractions I’m feeling this way how do I reconcile

that with my spiritual beliefs and shouldn’t a counselor be able to counsel

with regards to that when a quiet asked. The thing I think is interesting it is

all this is brought to mind the Julia work case again and it’s critically

important to obviously in your informed consent discuss the religious nature

of your therapeutic methods and things like that but in the Julie work if

she was told she could not do that her professors told us you can’t mention that

your Christian your form can say you can’t talk about your Christian beliefs and

the nature of your Christian practice or intentions and your power and

your practice because clients will feel judged more they’re going to have their

sense of safety jeopardized if you put that informed consent so there is some

antagonism within the profession at least that Eastern Michigan University I’m going

to guess it’s not only there to doing that and you have a constitutional right to

describe those things in your informed consent and ultimately if you get punished

for including them I would think you’d have a pretty solid First Amendment claim

and Eric the cases that Jerry was talking about with these two graduate students and

essentially being forced to counsel an individual with whom their own

value system conflicted with would. That in practice put a counselor in

a conflict if they were to counsel someone with whom they have direct

conflict in their own values Absolutely it would I mean again the notion that

counseling which touches on things is sacred as relationship marriage

the meaning of life emotion is a value free environment

is nonsense the reality is it does involve involves the worldview

in the values of the therapist and involves the worldview in

the values of the client and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous and

so I believe that training programs need to say let’s have an honest discussion

beyond we talk about authenticity and genuineness and all these core

Christian counseling practices and then when you get into the real world

you say you can’t be authentic. So I think you say here’s

who I am now ethically responsibly maybe even legally or

regulatory if there’s a conflict and I can see that what my orientation

is not in your best interests then ethically I should help you find

somebody’s got it’s an imposition issue right an imposition of your value

right you don’t impose which which impacts clients of to terminate everybody would

say wait a second all therapeutic sessions involve influence the in the values of

the therapist do influence the values of a client absolutely and so as such

the do no harm piece becomes really the central guiding directive here and

it’s challenging to move a way through this if you

reverse the argument and said and you have say someone who is affirming of

a belief that I don’t believe it right and I don’t want to I don’t want to

practice that I don’t want to do that that’s not what I believe I’ve been taught

all my life and I believe that it’s wrong I don’t want to practice that and

I’m here trying to impose. And you that it’s not it’s

what that could potentially do it would be the same horrifying stories

that we’ve heard of where religious there have imposed and they have worked

unjustly you know that and those stories are there

tragic they are but see it turns itself upside down on its

head when you go the other direction and so it’s got to go both ways and how do we

deal with people who are genuinely coming in wanting help you know they’re there

they’re the one they’re center stage it’s not us it’s them you know and that’s what

we’re trying to get to if you had for example Dr Clinton a real a versions

of say a child sexual predator and you just had a really difficult time with

that obviously they need counseling just like anyone else but you have a real

difficult time and you don’t feel that you could provide adequate counseling but

someone else could provide adequate counsel and so you want to refer would

not be on the ethical for any code or any university to say no no you have to

counsel that person even though it’s so wrenches your gut and

completely collides with your values and I’ve got a story that this

fits right with that for a moment I remember taking my state

boards and I was doing my oral exam and memorizing everything prepared to go in

there and there’s this panel up there and I remember one of the questions that

came back to me was simply this. Tim we were you know hey we really

impressed blah blah blah and I think. I just I remember the one

panelist said to me but I want to ask you a question

Who don’t you work well with. And I was like. I was opposed to the second. I was a deer in the headlights

because there was no way. I wasn’t ready for that matter I

gathered myself and came back and that was the very answer that I

gave back I remember being clinical supervision and my my supervisor and

I talking and discussing through. Some cases I had worked

where I had an offender there was a father of one

situation I’m thinking about and it was an aversion to me I just did not

like what who he was and what he had done. It bothered me not did I need some

more training to be sent to shore but I’m not sure I’m ever the right there for

him right now I just felt like that was a person who would work much better

say with Eric and the right thing for me to do is to refer and

that was the affirmative right that I got at the state board exam and if everybody

knows there are going to be conflicts there are times when it just doesn’t going

to it’s not going to work between you and I’m not saying it’s twenty percent of

our caseload it’s probably one or two three percent each but those cases do show

up if you look at the issue of competence what is the difference between saying

I’m competent to to clinically work with someone who’s anorexic or not competent by

virtue of education training experience or I’m competent to work with someone

who has spiritual issues by virtue of training education experience

competence is competence and so in other words if you like the Julie

award case when someone says you know I don’t feel competent

to engage a client at that level because partly because it’s a value

conflict competence could either be because of education right you’re not

experienced the area value systems complete right and all the ethics

codes all say if there’s a lack of competence the ethical thing is to refer

which is exactly what happened in this case you know you wonder what would happen

if the reverse happened let’s say you had in a verse overtly very

active Christian client come in talking Jesus and

all kinds of language and the student therapist in turn

was in a valid atheist maybe. Satanists I mean let’s

just take it there and that student said based on my atheism or

my eyes I’m not working with you and try to refer with that student get in

trouble likely not probably not in so what we have to understand is that we

have within the existing languages some things to stand on and so

we ought not to be afraid to engage and say hey this works both ways if

you’re telling us that you have to then that we could look at the secular

world and say at some level you must now be competent to render

biblical Christian oriented period anyone who walks into your own Well

that would be absurd Well Jeremy in the Julie Ward case didn’t Eastern

Michigan University allow others to opt out of things that they felt

incompetent or value system conflict Yeah there were a couple instances of that one

specifically was a grieving student who just lost a close relative student came

in for counseling who just was there for grief counseling in the university said

we’re not going to require you to do that refer that particular client

on to someone else and practicum So

they’ve done it before the code allows for it as Eric’s explaining and so they have

a duty to extend that to Julie and it just seems like it’s common sense and this is

from a cam from Diamond Bar California I wanted to know more about providing

psychotherapy in a church setting before engaging in counseling as

a licensed therapist wouldn’t the faith based counseling approach be more

ethical for a counselor than a Christian approach alone I’m not quite sure

the difference between those two but apparently this is a licensed

psychotherapist or therapist that wants to engage in church

counseling what are the risks involved in that I’ll throw

to you Dr schoolies and Dr Worthington if you pick up on that you

know I think primarily you’re talking about the difference of environment and

setting a private practice. Setting versus a church setting but if the person is licensed they’re still

held to the same standard of practice so if I’m practicing under A.B.C. church and

that church decided to have a vision for a Christian counseling center within

the general Ministry of the church and they hired me as a license person

to render care I still have to operate under my regulation or

license if I don’t then I am subject again to discipline or

reprimand or loss of license just the same way I am in private practice now

a church setting my Again more overtly. Identify themselves and saying this is the

kind of care we provide Sometimes churches just choose not to engage in

formal counseling centers because of liability issues they see what they

do as little board ministry oriented and then clinical and usually it’s

churches that are larger that have resources that can develop

something like that but you know Evelyn pitch it to you if you don’t I’m

pretty much right where you are and I would be just flapping my mouth

adding the same thing that you say and. I know my limitations but

you see that’s good ethical. George you have discussed a Florida

law regarding church based Christian counseling centers Yes Do

you have a citation for that do you have a way to be able

to find that not offhand but I’ll take your sheet and

ship that to you when I get back home and this is Rocky from Aberdeen South Dakota

work and we find the research that we need to support our position and faith

regarding Christian counseling Dr where. There are several different resources that

have come out within the last few years. We published a med and the Alice. Of the approaches to religious and

spiritual counseling and Journal of Clinical Psychology

there’s a handbook that can park a meant and Associates has

just done it’s about to come out in the day that also reviews

additional information. There is a handbook of counseling

psychology that not yet. Through odd has edited in the last

year it came out probably a month ago it has additional information so

there are three. Recent sources within the last year

another one Joshua hook first authored by an article in Journal of Clinical

psych which he looked at empirically supported religious and spiritual

treatments so therefore resources within the last year and a half Dr Quinn

would you be able to make those available to the people who are listening yeah

Don’t just the something that you have. A lot of positives like I

say president of stuff. Maybe some could also talk about Dr Harold

conics work at Duke because that’s what he’s doing down there and his center

for spirituality is another great resource to get your hands on some of the research

we do have a video series from our last World Conference conference in which Dr

conic presented his research there in Nashville what we could do is make that

available with this permission audio. To our members and to those who

are viewing so if you have an interest and that just e-mail a C.C. and

they’ll get back in touch with you with that information George

did you have a and. Harold colonnade has researched

every impera goal researched. In the journals from eight

hundred seventy six to. Twenty ten three thousand different

research articles on the relationship of religion to health and mental health and

just about any variable you could conceive of generally he’s found that three

out of four of those articles showed a very positive relationship between

religious faith and better health and better mental health and

they’re both published in the. The Journal of Religion and health I

think first edition in second edition it’s an amazing study to

look at it throughout over one hundred years in our history

is a psychiatrist that Duke University. Harold publishes something

every afternoon. I know several years ago I was asked to

part of a panel of medical doctors and I was giving a legal perspective on

the relationship between spirituality and morbidity and. Other health related issues and there was

a fascinating body of literature out there within the physical medical side of things

related to the depth of one’s spirituality to more ability and mortality rates so

there is definitely a correlation and in the medical side there’s even

more than a correlation in that. Sociologists can kind of remove

the effects of all kinds of things associated with religion like people who

are drawn to religion don’t smoke as much they don’t drink as much they don’t put

themselves in dangerous situations as much even if you remove all of

those factors statistically. Religion is related to health

in you get the same positive link the ally increase as stopping

smoking a pack of cigarettes a day it’s a huge health even after

all of that other stuff is. And removed. Dr us coolies This is from individuals

in Oakland Township Michigan is it legally safer to simply

utilize a more general C.B.D. approach and then offer quote Christian

oriented close quote therapy as an option Z B D is referring to

cognitive behavioral therapy. The thing that you want to do is

you do a proper assessment and in doing an assessment you

should have an idea of what is the best intervention orientation

given this client’s makeup given the presenting problem or problems and

then apply what makes sense so to say cognitive behavioral therapy might

be more efficacious than group therapy or some other orientation is not it’s just

not that black and white there are other factors that a clinician must consider in

making that decision although I do know lots of people of faith tend to orient

toward the cognitive behavioral therapies it makes sense when you bring in the

concepts of the Word of God and a lot in Dr we’re thinking it’s can speak to this

a lot of the research on evidence based. Interventions is a long cognitive

behavioral intervention so that’s probably the one orientations that

that’s been studied more than any other if you may want to just for a moment

addressed the very issue of evidence based practices in thirty supported

treatments we talked about developing biblically based apparently supportive

treatments as we look to the future and how it is going to employ its all

of us as we continue forward so evidence based treatments I believe are. Treatments that have objective evidence that supports their

effectiveness or their Africa sick. The evidence that you had a deuce that you

bring forth in support can be all kinds of evidence they could be randomized

clinical trials very carefully controlled it could be you know correlational studies

they could be all kinds of evidence so you building a case of what makes

a strong evidence base case empirically supported treatments is a very

narrow specific designation this says that a randomized controlled

trials have been done by at least two laboratories

independent of each other and at least these two have found

this treatment to work so it’s a very narrow but

powerful designation to be empirically supported evidence base

can require a lot more evidence than two clinical trials so

that can be either a weaker case or a stronger case than empirically supported

depending on how much evidence is a raid. This is from Peggy in Charlottesville

Virginia How do I support my continuing education in Christian counseling when my

board limits approval first used to these groups and Peggy the names seven

groups the Child Welfare League the National Association of Social Workers

the Association of Black Social Workers the Family Service Association of America

clinical social worker Association the social socialization of social work

boards in any state social work board so if that’s the limit of your seat use

how does she ultimately deal with Christian counseling to meet

those criteria I will head up for I will say that as an organization they. Constantly actively pursue and listen

we’re currently approved providers for the American cycle. Tical so she may we just received

our five year renewal and the National Board of certified counselors

and B.C.C. as well as the California border behavioral science examiners and

so these are secular entities who understand that we are faith based in

our orientation and we have done our due diligence to provide them evidence

that we’re being responsible and professional in it and the two areas

that I’m pretty passionate about and I think George has done some work

on this that we want to secure one is the Association

of Social Work boards. And also the marriage and family group and

so we want to become we’re and we are pursuing becoming preferred provider

so you can come to our conferences. Watch webinars like this and

also get your C.E.’s and I understand that at some point

you have to say if my faith is important in getting some training in

that well I only do it if your credit for credit is the same way I mean if the

government took away the tax write off for tithing would you stop giving or would

you say no but I continue to do that I heard as you know how do you do things

out of your moral foundation and what your belief system is and so

I understand what you’re saying about is the frustration and and I know social work

in particular is one of those areas but we are working on we may having that

sort of division of social work. And also the it also raises the question

which I refused to provide an answer to because I don’t want to be on record

to say there’s a legal claim there but. There raises the question about whether

the government regulating your ability to get C.L. we are whatever it is

continuing education credits in saying faith based programs are disqualified or

Harvard is they’re saying it or you know if you can at least show that

they meet the requirements of written. Rigorousness professionalism whatever

neutral forms they have why can’t your programs be included in that you

could be eventually essentially a. Free exercise by having one of the some

pretty healthy positive relationships Yeah and that’s important but we have gotten

stuck with some groups out there who have used used coded language

if you will to let us know you know we don’t support

your faith based believes and it’s going to be tough to pass

any requirements that we have. Even if you have accreditation by

day I think with my mind the C.C. you’ll find some pockets in some

states that just will refuse to do it while others will be more

cooperative all the more reason for C.C.’s advocacy at all levels correct

expression at the state level yes. Members to seriously participate

at the legislative levels if you don’t show up your

horse is going to be a. DOCTOR Clint will remember this this

was about I think two years ago we had several members over a period of

some months from North Carolina who were licensed in North Carolina

where the North Carolina Board disallowed C.E.’s that

were received it A.C.C. conferences and so we investigated

it looked at the language that they had in their official regulatory

code that says if that they accepted. They accepted providers

who were who were A.P.A. and N.B.C. providers but then they had

a C.C. on a specific second list that was exclusive and I went and I I wrote

a letter to the chairman of the board and said wait a minute you’re in what’s

actually in your code says A and we meet OK and

they actually remember this in. If they actually overturned it and

said we will count so if we are aware of certain these things

then we’d love to advocate you know any way we can because a part

of our orientation our passion is to be a voice for you yes or

if you have issues like that or know of them contact the A.C.C. If you

don’t know about it here there’s no way to address it and so obviously the members

need to contact the A.C.C. This is Philip from Knoxville Tennessee and I’m going to

put this back in your lap Dr schoolies you somewhat already answered it but

this goes a little bit for is a C.C. considering offering its own licensure to

allow Christian counselors to be licensed in their states instead of secular license

or that causes Christians to fall under the legally binding ethic codes of say for

example the CIA A.P.A. M.F.T. etc. That’s a complex question and I. Respond to it in two parts in order for

a state to to establish a license there first needs to be

legislative language in other words the the legislature of that

state needs to craft laws that say you can now primarily gate regulations

and then there’s a board that is then formed for the specific purpose

of writing these regulations and and overseeing both the issuing of licenses

and the renewal in the discipline and all that so it starts first at

the state level that there has to actually be something in the code

which could be it I’m not saying that. It can’t be done but it’s not a simple and

easy process the second point what it does do is we have the international

board of Christian council as I B.C.C. and where it’s not the same

thing as a like a license at the state level what we do is I believe

we have a sufficiently rigorous applique. Ation and

review process that says what we give our sort of approval to is that someone

not only meets whatever standards that are required by a license or whatever but

we also say you really are practicing or ministering as a Christian oriented

counselor whether you’re a lay counselor a pet store a counselor a license counts

and we do the same thing by the way for life coaches which is a totally

unregulated field right now and crisis responders and so our attempt to provide

some legitimacy that a provider can go out to the community to referral sources

and say somebody has looked at me and said that I’m competent to

deliver Christian oriented care across multiple levels we think there’s

value in that it’s a national voluntary credential that we’ve established

much like the National Board for certified counsellors Yes and

under the leadership of Tom Clawson for a number of years they’ve done

a fine job of also starting to have influence in the counseling

Leisinger process and they participate in the at

least the development of the examinations the number of states

have used and certainly the nationally certified counselor credential

a voluntary national credential is something the value and I like what Eric

saying that was the goal of the I.P.C.C. was to demonstrate minimal standards

of some level of competency so you could say to the public hey I’ve got a

proficiency here I actually am a Christian oriented their best you know these

standards and we actually have been working with some third party payers

like Tri-Care which is the provider of. Dependence on Millet who are military

are active military families where they’re beginning to identify and

recognize specialty areas and they now. Now actually in their referral system recognize Christian Orient

in faith based care and so we’ve been have we’ve been in some

conversation with how did someone get that specialty and we’re like Well we’d like

to be sort of the person that sort of. Provides a mechanism to identify

those people and so again somewhere along the line we have an opportunity I

believe to step to the forefront establish some guidelines that other secular

entities begin to recognize faith based spiritual care is important to a

segment of the client population out there someone has to be the expert in that area

it ought to be people who practice and believe in that unless we forget a lot of

people who seek out mental services want their faith addressed yes and

affirmed in the therapeutic process still there and can I say that the alignment

factor between their APUS thing client. EV would be positive when there is that

kind of can grow it’s between them in terms of therapeutic outcomes so

you can say that absolutely. John Norcross a prominent psychotherapist

as conveyed convened a joint task force of division twenty nine of paper and

division twelve so twenty nine is psychotherapy and

twelve assists clinical psychology and they reviewed what they called

empirically supported or evidence based therapist and

therapeutic factors and match between client and

counselor on religion and spirituality had the highest

level of support as judged by joint to Division Task Force that is there is just stunning to me how

some professors the graduate schools that is going to be careful just want to

stall this you know that they were. Saint wait a second it flies in the face

of everything that’s in the literature you know that there were and stay there

and it flies in the face of the principle to always do what’s in the best

interest of the client and so if faith is important to

the client then our training programs are graduate institutions need to

be supporting the principle of then that’s also important so some spiritual leaders

century believe you training competence they’re still competence and competency

I would love to see universities. Actually include in their practical

terms in their in turn ships in their ethics classes the value in the in

the importance of developing spiritual competencies because they need to say

listen you’re going to encounter this in the real world out there and so for

us to competently train you for licensure and to engage the public

then we need to train or we would assume that maybe managed care

companies and others would be looking for this kind of can grow it’s insane that we

want this if it’s impacting the outcomes that are there and so nobody needs to hide

behind the fact that they are bringing God into counseling that’s what you’ve always

there and saying my faith matters my faith matters as a client it’s OK counseling and

the tragedy is that there seems to be this faith gap between let’s say

the religiously oriented United States and those who are providing this type of

service and I know it’s a delicate dance again discussion dialogue debate we’re

just moving and there’s so much to do so the issues that you know we looked at one

example Jeremy and I did as relates to a threat to Christian counseling and

others have that is question what are other threats we could be here all

night talking about other threats was really undersurface stated the discussion

a lot of discussion sorry and so when when you have a situation like

you’re dealing with at the University. We’re a graduate student is forced

to go in for certain area and counsel someone that is colliding

with their religious values or in California where they’re saying that

parents can’t take their minor child to counseling even though it’s consistent

with their values that really cuts against the very core of Christian or counseling

in general doesn’t not I just simply undermines counseling where it’s

foreseen the council leave the client to be with a counselor that literally

collides with their values and also forces the counselor to put

aside their values and suppress them to meet some other goal it’s

idiology it’s not science. Dr I want to ask you a question

Worthington This is from bodily from Michigan how might the right

to integrate spirituality and religious values in practice vary for

different kinds of counselors for example like counselors

Pastoral Counselors discipleship counselors life coaches and

licensed psychologist for example. I think that our. Integration of Christian principles

into our practice whatever our practice is is very dependent

on the context that we’re in. So if I’m the lake house or and I’m

counseling with the church usually people come to Lake house or working out of

a church because they’re Christian and if you didn’t address anything to do

with your Christian viewpoint people would go ahead and go away scratching

their head going what is up here so I think we have to you know tailor to

this specific situation that we’re in what we do if I am in a state and I’m a licensed by the state then I

have to be responsive to the state. And I can’t do anything

is stay says I can’t do. It unless I’m willing to

engage in turn it is. So so the whole continuum you

know is dependent on what is your situation what situation

are you in what’s appropriate for that what are people looking for

I need to provide care for them within a atmosphere where we can form the best working alliance that we can

possibly get so that I can help them the most that I possibly can George

along that line there’s a question what if I’m in a state that is not licensed or

I’m not licensed under the A C. code of ethics which I gave

the example of the code of ethics if not the AC a code of ethics there is

a probably another ethics code that you are liable to OK as a professional. And as if says Boy what the state

requires they will require what they limit they will limit I use to

early in my career consider the ordination exemption that all pastors have in all

states to be a fairly weak protection now I see it as the best and most powerful

protection for doing Christian counseling. To whatever degree you want to do it

it’s in the context of the church and it’s legally exempted from state licensure

statutes it’s not controlled by any licensure board it’s your church pursuing ministry in the way that they have

defined it and that’s legally protected in all fifty states in a way

that being a professional therapist who is also a Christian counselor is

not as fully protected however there are some This is another area of

perhaps growing concern in California. Pastors no longer have. Have the holders of the privilege or

confidential they are now mandated reporters for reporting child sexual

abuse and elderly abuse and so before the the confessional was respected

and attorneys and clergy often were again there might be a moral obligation

that someone has to wrestle with but legally they were not mandated reporters

that is now not the case in California even pastors in the process of the

confessional are now mandated reporters so we see that yeah you have

the legal entities and the licensure and

titties regulate the professional but you do see because of where what’s

happening culture and what hits the media some overflow into what might

traditionally be seen as ministry and re-invest that that’s that really

underscores again the reason why there needs to be an advocacy because that

really begins to tear down the client privilege the penitent Clairon the to not

address these issues Matt to not talk about them to not act is to act and

you know that to be silent is to speak and so we’ve we’ve got a lot going

on around us I’m I’m on F. side I’m a little more hopeful I

think there are ways to dialogue and to do work and to engage at

whatever level is necessary to get to that center you know that

from the code of ethics to the. Code of ethics the A.P.A. and what have

you as we look at them as we examine them there’s a lot of debate and a lot more

debate that needs to be done a lot more discussion needs to go on we need to

openly discuss spirituality religious issues faith at the next level there’s

a lot of great work that’s been done and much to the credit of men

like Dr Worthington and we need God to raise up

more champions like him and that’s happening it really is and

we just need a lot. Just we’ve got a lot of work to do but it doesn’t get done if

we don’t do this right. This is Valerie from Hawaii and Dr Tim I think we need to have the next

bend over there in Hawaii and. Say may tell her to send

us lots of big checks and. Valerie from Weiss says how do we expect

a counselor appalled compensate competency nine if they do not hold religious beliefs

themselves even if they are trained we may need to recognize that every one of

us will have limitations to this encounter can see Number nine is the professional

counselor can recognize spiritual and or religious themes in

client communication and is able to address these with the client

when they are therapeutically relevant doctor schoolies I think is you

think about spiritual competencies. You not only take

the individual competency and look at how that’s applied but I think you

have to look at the larger integration of all the competencies and so when I take

a company like that this is I have to be competent to recognize the communication

the language the words the spiritual talk that the client is and then know

how to engage them and you might say but as a professional as a clinician I’m

not particularly religiously oriented then I would also have to pair that with

other competencies that say I recognize that if I lack competence in that

area I must recognize it and make an appropriate referral in so

rather than saying you must become bilingual if you will

in do that I think you’re also free to say this other competency

comes into play here I recognize it and therefore the ethical thing for me to do

is in your best interest is to connect you to someone who can speak that language who

is more fluent in that language than I am. This is Philip from Knoxville Tennessee. Some Christian Research has shown that

using secular counseling interventions undermines the spiritual component in

other words relying on man rather than God Dr Worthington you

mentioned that counselors should make spiritual accommodations for

Christian clients would an exclusively Christian based intervention work better

for those seeking Christian counsel. Well I think that. I think it would be of if you would be

in a very shy on very shaky ethical grounds to provide Christian counseling

and only Christian counseling for someone who wasn’t seeking

Christian counseling so I think that you know providing

Christian counseling when someone is seeking it is respectful

of what their wishes are and is is going to you know help

the therapeutic alliance but I can’t really provide Christian

counseling for people who find that. Something that’s repugnant to them so

I’m not sure that I answered that question was setting setting is going

to dictate it right we’re going to I think they’re also saying should you apply what

might be considered secular interventions. Psychology as opposed to things that

are a little bit more overtly Biblical and palatable to you know the that there may

be a good way to answer that would be a look in the work of Eric Johnson and

others who have come up with the four views now the five you used book

on counseling in Christianity I know there was a case study book that’s

just come out recently edited by. Was edited by Stephen Grego I

think in Timothy Sizemore it’s fascinating piece of work looking

at different quote Christian approach approaches that are out there

everything from biblical counseling to transformational work

that’s been going on and so. There’s a lot of growth and development

inside the whole Christian counseling movement itself and it’s very rich and

robust and we look forward just to see watching this movement continue to

grow I know you’ve got a few more question we’ve got dark quite a few more questions

and I have to be able to get about ten minutes of that Minutes try to get

going on for ten very quickly Rodney from. North Richmond Hills How would you

implement our faith in the counseling sessions when the person has tried

everything else to overcome depression but does not believe in Christ

is not religious themselves. Dr warrior I’m sorry I was how would you

how would you integrate your faith as a counselor into a counseling session

when the client is not religious. I would inform the the client

what my principles are but I would not try to get them to adhere

to my principles so I would want them to know that when I say things I’m not

coming out of some kind of blank slate and they have to you know use their

adult judgment in order to evaluate what I’m saying but I would

try not to impose my beliefs on them so that’s a delicate dance between the word

exposing values versus imposing value as a licensed mental health provider

sometimes in the midst of tragedy or crisis these are wonderful God ordained opportunities is Dr Clinton

saying to expose them to considering the faith factor

as opposed to saying you know imposing it on there I had a client

as a referral from a pastor a young couple in their mid twenty’s

both were engineers civilian engineers on a an army base a military base

didn’t know Jesus from anybody were interested in spiritual things it was

a it was a national incident on the news. The mother usually took their

infant six month old son to the daycare center on base she

had a doctor appointment that particular day ninety nine point

nine times out of those trips she took the son she had a doctor’s

appointment the husband took the so. On Never oriented there went right

to his office left the six month old who was sleeping in the car infant

dies in the car because of for heat I’m now counseling this

couple who have no spiritual rez savor to draw on to deal

with guilt shame and I mean you can imagine just the whole

sense of eternity but in that because pastors locally had reached out to

them it begin to at least engage them in the concepts of eternity and

where is our son now in faith and and it opened up some doors without me having

to post but I can say it’s difficult when you want to go there and comfort

people spiritually but you can’t and you have to sometimes just be patient to

let God open up those doors I think Aaron back as thought all of this about the

cognitive triad of depression worthless helpless hopeless thinking and I think

that’s just as applicable to Christians or to non Christians and within those three

arenas there’s all sorts of room for discussion that will bring out all

sorts of values related issues all sorts of belief related issues

including their beliefs about why they may not be a Christian or why they have rejected God or

what they believe about God and his concerns and I think you’ve

got to be willing to explore those regardless of whether one is

a Christian or not because you’re going to hit some of those issues that may give

you grounds to speak and disclose a little bit about who Christ is again

you want to expose you don’t want him. We’ve got a couple of questions from

people who are lay counselors This is from Karen in Bowling Green Kentucky and

Audrey from Radford North Carolina both of them are involved in either

church or lay counseling in their quest. Are generally the same how do some

of these issues apply to them particularly from a licensing standpoint

from some of these ethical codes informed consent if they’re a lay

counselor in the church they’re not licensed apparently by the state but their church or lay counselors

doing Christian counseling there. You know I’ve done quite a bit of

lay counselor training because in some times the church gets

a little queasy about offering this here’s what I believe the body

of Christ needs to be about the ministry of tending to those

who are broken and wounded and I believe it’s part of the calling of the

local church however I believe in today’s culture we have to be wise we we can’t

enter into we have to be prepared because I believe working with those who

are wounded and hurting is a sacred trust that God is also a father and just

the same way me as a dad if someone hurts my kids when they’re grown up boy there’s

something in me wants to rise up someone blesses my kids I’m all about it I want to

bless you back that God is the same way so when he takes a wounded son or

daughter and says Here care for them I think is a sacred trust and

whether you’re licensed or not licensed I believe that sacred trust compels us

to be ethical compels us to practice good principles of care be honorable

be honorable have integrity do the right thing and so I think wisdom says

even though you may not be mandated by law I think wisdom says before God We

are stewards of this person and their pain and her crisis and so we

should act as if we are and I think that. You know it’s what first US lonely and

fourteen there are times when we are. We need to confront people there are times

when we need to support the weak you know that there are times

when we meet them like. Jesus did at that point if I need that

type of insightfulness you know that and responsiveness I think opens the door to the windows of the soul and that’s

what we’re involved in soul care ministry it’s a beautiful calling Matt I’m going

to do something almost close the loop and if you did you know I was going to throw

it to you because we’re running well right there and that’s what I want to get

a kind of wrap this will the first thing I want to do was say thank you to everyone

of you for participating tonight it’s been a challenging evening I think it’s been

interesting terms of discussion dialogue. That issues for us certainly to

think a lot more about to debate to push ourselves on and we’ve got a lot

of stretching a lot of growing ahead of us what I’d like to do is just let you

close with a final word each a. You got your sixty second. Psion or see a later speech is it George. Sixty said. Yes we do belong to a wonderful call a God has called us to meet

the needs of the broken hearted. Meet the needs of those who are violating

all kinds of rules who has called us to care for others in a way that

sacrifices ourselves and puts there’s. More important than ourselves and each

one of us has a particular role to play we used to put out this idea of a three

legged stool the helping Ministry of the church as a pastor as

a professional counselor has a lay helper all three of those legs are necessary for

that helping sea to be maintained. How do we build that in our communities

how do we build that across the nation how do we encourage you how can

you support us in what we’re doing for you right or they didn’t. Well. I am a research walk. So why do you. Have this like what do you expect here

I you know I want us to I want to encourage us where there were

a lake counts hers or pastors or whoever we are to speak the language of the culture in the language of the culture

is to draw on some kind of research in order to justify our effectiveness now I have to I have another language in my

language is the language of Scripture and so I want to design interventions

that are powerful and that you know draw in Scripture and

that invite God to work in miraculous way and so

you know we have to introduce those. Thoroughly Christian scripture

based interventions into the therapeutic process but you know

there are people out there that need to. Just say I want to devote my life to showing that those things really

work that if we line up with scripture we can trust the outcomes and

and then to go out and try to do the best scientific

studies to provide secular evidence that what we

know is true actually works great piece Jeremy I’m a through a tube

I’m a preface at this way what people think of a lawyer ring and getting

at the level say of the Julie award case it’s pretty intimidating it’s

scary people to nestle wanting. I mean if you just wore. I get it and

I won’t be associated with that but. It’s significant It really is I think you

know what the thing that struck me tonight when I heard the presenters speaking at

one of the things that was said a lot was that there’s the clients within that

are seeking counseling services there’s a majority of them who want

Christian based counseling or religious based counseling something that

can that conforms to their spiritual or religious needs and yet there’s an in

Congress between the clients who need that in the counselors you can provide it

in Unfortunately we’re in a position now where we see that the profession is

starting to force individuals to choose between the profession in their faith

essentially excluding more people from the profession who could provide the very

services that most of the clients want so I think the challenge for people who

want to enter the profession and who ultimately in it right

now is just to be willing to. You know fight the battle to include your

religious beliefs within your practice and that means fighting it at the state board

level with the state legislature and ultimately like him saying

sometimes through litigation to defend yourself if you are inclusion of

your religious beliefs comes under attack. Or. You know for me I’ll repeat something I

said I I believe what God has called us to do is a sacred trust and

whether it’s a the lay level of past or A level clinical level God has

called us to minister to the broken hearted as a sixty one comes to mind

the spirit of the Lord God is upon you. He’s called you to bind up

the brokenhearted to set captives pre to proclaim liberty and

the day of salvation of our God And so my prayer is that God would give

us the discernment to know how to. See what’s going on wisdom to know

how to apply what he’s shown us humility that we can approach that the. Those who are hurting power

to overcome the evil one and love which is the greatest

transformational force in the universe. That. Well you know we serve the lord

of creation the King of Kings and the Lord of lords and

we know from our own experience that. Christ has transformed us and

radically changed us and our relationship with him and

we know from experience too and counselors obviously you’re on the front

line in this that that also changes people’s lives as well faith in as

Tim has always said you know my faith matters it matters in a lot of different

areas you see faith based universities and colleges they’re exploding growing over

other similarly secular colleges because there is a hunger and thirst and desire

for faith and certainly you see A.C.C. the largest Christian counseling

organization in the world there’s a reason for that people are hungry for faith and

clients are hungry for that and yes there are challenges that we face but

those challenges are not insurmountable I always say that God is a God of incredible

opportunity and whatever you have apparent adversity that we face

whether it comes from the courts or of the legislature or from counseling

codes I don’t look at those as mountains that are insurmountable or obstacles

that we can’t overcome I’m looking for God’s design and movement in that

that with apparent adversity with one Christian standing

in the gap wanting to do what God wants them to do at that moment

God can turn incredible that apparent adversity into incredible opportunity so

I think we live in a very exciting time where faith does matter and we have to

work in all these different fronts whether it’s in the legislature in the courts in

the academic realm in the policy arena wherever it is to make sure that our

Faith Matters and that that is a bill that ability to engage in Christian counseling

is never taken away from us you bet. Just with a close with this. I love the fact that God loves us and that we’re called to be partners with

him in this incredible ministry. Called counseling and it’s called mental

health care it’s a beautiful calling and I know that at times it’s easy to

get separated out to be confused or to feel alone in that calling

that’s why we stand together that’s why we do these things and I want

to encourage you to find a godly spiritual friend a mentor someone who invest in

your life that’s why we have the A.C.C. and I want to ask you to pray that

God would basically give us a rebirth really just take us at this

twenty five year anniversary and just give us new eyes and new faith

to move forward boldly to champion what we love impacting lives it’s all

about the father of mercies the God of all comfort who comforts us personally

so that we in turn can comfort others with the comfort we ourselves

receive of God that’s beautiful.

Rybacki & Rybacki: Chapters 3 – 4

Rybacki & Rybacki (2012): chs. 3-4

Chapter 3

Chapter 4

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Rybacki & Rybacki: Chapters 1 – 2

Rybacki & Rybacki (2012): chs. 1–2

Chapter 1

Chapter 2

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• iNTRODUCTION
• cHAPTER 1
• CHAPTER 2
• CHAPTER 3
• CHAPTER 4